Gas-in Electric (as opposed to Plug-in Hybrid)

[kylealden]

@Scott
have you had any issues on road trips where you had to wait more than 30 minutes just to get access?

According to my car's data, I've supercharged 147 times at 67 locations in three years of Tesla ownership. I've only had to wait for a charger once (in Ellensburg, WA, back when it was the only supercharger on the I90 corridor from Seattle) and it was less than ten minutes.

CCS isn't that good, but should grow as fast or faster. You'll be fine.

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[ajdelange]

I'm drawing a blank on the equation to give us the total range that a generator would add in this scenario,

This this is basically a Level 2 EVSE (albeit one that weighs 354 lbs) which allows the vehicle to take up to 9.6 kWh. The charging rate formula is the same: mph = 0.1*V*I/EPA_wall = 0.1*9600/48 = 20.8 mph. The specs tell us the fuel consumption is about 1.2 gph at half power implying 10.4/1.2 = 8.7 mpg.

Now the 48 kWh/100 mi EPA number is for EPA driving conditions. Pull a trailer and it will at least double. Go off road on loose soil/sand and it will more than double.

This Blink gen set is obviouly not intended for personal use but rather for companies that provide roadside assistance services. I could obviously be installed at remote locations without access to electricity by the operators of these locations.

 

[Zoidz]

I guess the other thing that I didn't bring up is that we are looking at getting a trailer as well with our R1S, and so far there are no figures on the range with any sort of trailer load, just that it can tow 7,500lbs.

That brings up another idea! A self-powered RV trailer. Throw some electric motors on the trailer axel and a bunch of batteries, and the power needed from the truck to tow would be much less.

Towing losses will be similar, in terms of % mileage reduction, to a ICE vehicle. Towing losses are due weight, friction and wind resistance. Energy is Energy. If Trailer XYZ reduces range by 50% with an ICE, Rivian will be similiar. You should expect losses of 35% to 50%+ for anything but a tiny lightly loaded utility trailer.

Does it make sense to spend $4500 on a generator to do this? Not to me....

Can you charge a Rivian while driving? Probably not. That's hard on the batteries and presumably Rivian will not allow this via software.

Self powered RV trailer? RUN FORREST RUN, lol. With all the millions of trailers on the road, when was the last time you saw a self powered trailer? Never..... There's a reason for that. It's fraught with many dynamic physics problems, the biggest being the trailer having better traction than the vehicle. Another issue is that Newton's first law states that the powered trailer will want to go straight all the time (unless it has sophisticated motor control linked to the tow vehicle). Combine these together, and what happens as the vehicle turns? Jack knife on a wet road quicker than you can say "Rivian".

If your range anxiety is this real, and you can't stop to charge, an EV probably isn't for you....

 

[JeremyP]

This this is basically a Level 2 EVSE (albeit one that weighs 354 lbs) which allows the vehicle to take up to 9.6 kWh. The charging rate formula is the same: mph = 0.1*V*I/EPA_wall = 0.1*9600/48 = 20.8 mph. The specs tell us the fuel consumption is about 1.2 gph at half power implying 10.4/1.2 = 8.7 mpg.

Now the 48 kWh/100 mi EPA number is for EPA driving conditions. Pull a trailer and it will at least double. Go off road on looses soil/sand and it will more than double.

This Blink gen set is obviouly not intended for personal use but rather for companies that provide roadside assistance services. I could obviously be installed at remote locations without access to electricity by the operators of these locations.

That mileage estimate is much closer to what I would have guessed. Our BMW I3 with range extender is a serial hybrid if the range extender is running, and it only gets about 35mpg at around 70mph on the few times I've taken it out of town, and its 35hp engine barely keeps up at that speed. If you managed to hack the charging system of the rivian to be able to charge while driving (which would surely void all battery and powertrain warranty) your highway range still is not going to increase appreciably.

Remote trips could still be a concern, but will just take a different type of planning. I would like to know what kind of range the motortrend guys got on dirt roads. I did a trip last weekend that was pretty remote, from western Colorado to the hole in the rock trail by hall's crossing on lake Powell. Even that trip would have been doable in a rivian with a quick charge stop in Green River and then overnight charging at the halls crossing campground. A full day on the trail used about 1/4 tank of gas so I would be confident that a fully charged battery would have no problem for a full day of low speed trail driving. Fyi, I would not recommend taking your shiny new rivian on that trail unless you really want to test the off-road package skid plates!

 

[Dark-Fx]

If you are seriously considering doing this, then I hate to break it to you, but an EV is not for you. You might want to look into the Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe that's supposed to be coming out soon.

 

[Trandall]

I guess the other thing that I didn't bring up is that we are looking at getting a trailer as well with our R1S, and so far there are no figures on the range with any sort of trailer load, just that it can tow 7,500lbs.

That brings up another idea! A self-powered RV trailer. Throw some electric motors on the trailer axel and a bunch of batteries, and the power needed from the truck to tow would be much less.

Carl, no, your worrying me... just move on. No roof mounted solar panels, extra batteries, generators or oxen are pulling your Rivian for extend range. Bring the included portable cable with you on trips and in the extremely rare event ABRP states a route is a no go make a special plan to find an interesting spot to plug into a convenience receptacle and have an adventure/ read a book/ listen to a podcast/ nap etc... and before you bring it up you also may not install a mast with a wind turbine or sail to extend range either. Your going to love your R1S.

 

[carl]

Love the feedback and discussion.

Being and engineer and problem solver these are the things that I just think about. This was mostly in hypotheticals to see what others thought incase I was actually on to something, which it doesn't sound like.

@Zoidz
Trailers is where I do think there are possibilities however, 10 years ago no. If you have a trailer that is fully communicating with the vehicle pulling it, there is actually a lot of potential for improvements and safety. The power output of the trailer would be the same as the vehicle or slightly less to keep a proper balance between the two. When going down hills having correctly balanced regen braking in the trailer and car would be safer. And finally, backing up and parking the trailer could be simplified if the wheels are powered correctly, not to mention the ability to move a trailer into a tight spot without even having a vehicle hooked up at all, via simple controls.

At the very least, and this is what I do think we'll start seeing over the next 10 years, is adding extended batteries into the trailer. A 100 kWh battery weighs around 1380lbs which is a fair bit, but distributed in the frame of the trailer/rv would create a nice low center of gravity. It would supply more power than the trailer would ever be able to utilize, and could then be used to either charge the car, or be directly connected for the car to use on the road. (Some sort of approval/modification would obviously be needed from the car manufacture). Once the cost falls below $100/kWh, so around $10k for my example, I bet there would be interest for avid glampers who like to stay away from the full hookup camp sites.

@JeremyP
I didn't realize the i3 had a range extender, but yeah, that would be exactly what I was envisioning to makes some sort of range improvements.
I'll definitely have to check out that trail, not too far from Phoenix. I would even think that the range of an EV would be better than that of an ICE when it comes to back country, slow moving terrain since an EV really only uses power when moving, where as an ICE would constantly be idling. That's one of the things I'm interested in finding out, either first hand or from someone here on the forums. The first trails I'm thinking of tackling with my R1S will be the back side to Crown King here in AZ since it's not that technical or long

@Trandall
Haha!! Yes, adding a sail was my next thought for when I tackle the Uyuni Salt Flat ?

 

[JeremyP]

For camping trips far from any plugs, get a converted vw van from solarrolla.com

 

[carl]

The Solar Electric Scooters is great! ?

 

[Trandall]

The Solar Electric Scooters is great! ?

and if you direct the headlamp towards the PV cells you have a perpetual motion machine. I'm not into diamond plate is this available in whicker?
You would get a kick out of the the weird alibaba ev of the week.

 

[carl]

and if you direct the headlamp towards the PV cells you have a perpetual motion machine. I'm not into diamond plate is this available in whicker?
You would get a kick out of the the weird alibaba ev of the week.

Yeah, I get the the notifications for those every once in a while. This is one of my favorites.

 

[Trekkie]

i dunno about a lot of you but the whole reason I'm getting an EV based 4x4 truck is to NOT use gasoline and try and help claw back the amount of carbon we've been dumping into the atmosphere.

trucks are some of the worse offenders as far as gasoline used per 100 miles. taking them to wonderful natural areas and filling them with exhaust has always been an anathema to me. I'm no tree hugger, but at the same time I want the trees to be there for my kids and for them to love going and exploring places, and having the ability to do so because they're still there.

Most campgrounds have 30A or 50A service. Get the right converter, use them to hopscotch around. It sounds crazy at first but once you get the hang of it, no different than finding a gas staion in the middle of nowhere NM. Half the time the person managing the camp ground will charge you $10 to use it, get 25 -40 miles per hour (depending on amperage/voltage) while you snack on lunch and stretch your range.

Or run your camper off its batteries at night while your rivian uses the shore line to charge up to full.

This is why I'm waiting for the max pack honestly, get the range I need towing, but i'm also going to not be putting 11,000 pound trailers on it either, going to go with lightweight stuff.

 

[carl]

@Trekkie
I'm totally there with you when it comes to going EV, and why I'm also going EV (and to help offset my time on the track in an ICE). I was just brainstorming ideas for those rare occasions.

That's actually a really great idea with using a campground for a somewhat quick charge.

 

[brianmartin]

sounds like you aren't quite ready to switch to an EV yet. I'd say just wait for the max pack.

 

[Mysta]

I think you're over-worried. I just did a 6000 mile roadtrip in a Taycan and my longest days at 85+ mph (12 hours of driving not charging) I stopped 3 times for 15-30 mins). That's a lot of driving. Towing you'll obviously use a lot more but store some tv shows or games on an iPad and it's not that big of a deal.

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