Frame Comparison : Rivian R1T vs. Ford F150 Lightning -- Munro Teardown YT

[jclicky]

Interesting comparison on the structural frames of the Ford Lightning & the Rivian R1T.

Highlights:

• “Limitations” for Ford (existing 150 line & design) vs. Rivian’s more agile approach
• Challenges potentially for ramp up for Rivian
• Lightning is simpler
• Rivian performance spectrum & much more complicated but better performing design
• Stamped & BEV “from ground up” designs of Rivian frame
• Rivian’s approach requires more laborious welds, assembly, QC (along w/ higher risks for errors in the assembly) vs. Ford’s more “elegant” front framing design
• Rivian does not use brackets where Ford has brackets toward rear (hitch, bumper, differing bed sizes, etc.)

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[Prime]

My takeaway is Ford’s many deliberate decisions from decades of experience in automotive manufacturing making a very solid and reliable frame capable of taking a beating vs lots of spot welds and layered pieces due to lack of equipment for thicker metal structure. Not fair to compare Ford to Rivian especially with this being Rivian’s very first effort, but as expected lots of room for improvement.

 

[Smithery]

Not fair to compare Ford to Rivian especially with this being Rivian’s very first effort...

I mean... no... It's perfectly fair!

Their ambition is to get people to buy their EV truck vs. the established makers, so it's perfectly fair to compare everything about them to the established makers.

 

[U100]

My takeaway from watching that video is if I had a dollar for each time he said “essentially” I’d essentially have enough to buy another Rivian.

 

[ads75]

Not fair to compare Ford to Rivian especially with this being Rivian’s very first effort, but as expected lots of room for improvement.

It’s completely fair to compare the two, they are competing for the same dollars from some of the same customers. I got my R1T last week and love it so far, but one thing that worried me about some of the early reviews was that a few reviewers said it was “great for a first product.” Ok, but how was it as a product overall? It’s great that something is great as a first product, but people also want to know how it compares to everything else out there also.

 

[Prime]

It’s completely fair to compare the two, they are competing for the same dollars from some of the same customers. I got my R1T last week and love it so far, but one thing that worried me about some of the early reviews was that a few reviewers said it was “great for a first product.” Ok, but how was it as a product overall? It’s great that something is great as a first product, but people also want to know how it compares to everything else out there also.

So having owned a first generation product (Tesla) I am giving Rivian the benefit of the doubt and some slack on production. When I first got my Tesla, coming from Lexus, I was in shock about panel gaps and some interior QC issues. Most were fixed, others kinda were and dont bother me anymore as I dont notice them and no one who's ever seen my car ridden in it or complimented it has noticed. When you are a auto manufacturer building millions of cars, its pretty easy to make some changes and build a different version (Ford). Rivian started from scratch with no history, growing pains are a nature of the product. I can accept this and state that its fair not to directly compare because I have had the experience of owning a early electric vehicle from a new brand with no automotive expertise. My overall experience with my Tesla is far better than what I had with my previous Lexus, even with the issues I had from the start that "shocked" me. I am hoping I feel the same way about Rivian once I actually have one on hand.

I understand the argument that they are similar costs so they should be compared, but I would argue that you are paying for higher end hardware, equipment, materials, and computer system on Rivian's side. You are also paying for their novel approach to building a new truck/design vs Fords more classic approach. I personally dont think its apples to apples, but to each their own.

 

[Count Orlok]

One frame can handle stuff trucks do (plow snow); one can't.

 

[SASSquatch]

My takeaway is...."itself."

Drinking game!

 

[mini2nut]

You can plainly see the differences between the frames. I see I lot of areas where Rivian can reduce COGS.

 

[NY_Rob]

One frame (Ford) looks like it's been made by a company that has 100yrs experience making heavy duty frames that are clean and professionally built with equipment made for just that purpose. The other (Rivian) looks like something kludged together in a high school shop class using hand tools and scraps of metal they had on hand.

The good news is Rivian can only improve from version 1...... This time Ford wins hands down.

 

[SASSquatch]

One frame (Ford) looks like it's been made by a company that has 100yrs experience making heavy duty frames that are clean and professionally built with equipment made for just that purpose. The other (Rivian) looks like something kludged together in a high school shop class using hand tools and scraps of metal they had on hand.

The good news is Rivian can only improve from version 1...... This time Ford wins hands down.

While I agree Ford clearly has the long historical knowledge for building frames, I think it is maybe too harsh to call Rivian's first production attempt as "high school level."

Ford has institutional advantages from decades of production experience, but they are also limited in terms of overall design because they are retrofitting from an ICE designed frame.

An apples to apples comparison is when Ford goes full clean slate and has to start from scratch like Rivian did to develop something designed from the ground up as a BEV. I am sure they will still have an advantage, but this isn't a true apples to apples comparison.

 

[NY_Rob]

Agree with some of that, but comparing a vehicle "frame" to another vehicle "frame" is about as close as comparison can be. No shame on Rivian, it's their first vehicle, but that frame is anything but a "professional" build by any stretch of the imagination from multiple spot welds to misaligned threaded holes to weld spatter and multiple layers slapped and welded over other layers vs. a single thick structure just because Rivian doesn't have the equipment to build that yet. Look at the shock tower for instance.. two half's welded together capped of with a 3rd top-hat piece... it's a mess. On the Ford, the same shock tower is one stamped piece that probably takes 5 seconds to stamp out vs all the time to precision weld the 3 piece Rivian shock tower in place then to the frame assembly. At this point as the presenter said "it is what it is"... I'm pretty sure if Sandy had done this video, he would have been pretty critical of the build quality and multiple inefficiencies of the Rivian frame.

 

[KiloV]

The first clean-slate BEV truck that Ford/Model e builds will have a frame that looks a lot like the R1T's frame. My main take-away from this analysis isn't that there's anything shoddy about the R1T's frame (far from it); but that's it's complicated to manufacture (and therefore expensive). That seems to be a common theme of all of these Munro videos. Rivian is using ten screws when they should be using three. They're using three-part assemblies when they should be using a single snap-in part. They're using four slightly different parts when they could design a single, multi-purpose part that can be used in four different places. These are all efficiencies that Rivian will develop over future model years.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ thank you @KiloV, my thoughts exactly.

While the Rivian frame will do, there's tons of room for build improvement and cost savings due to saved labor time.

 

[iansriv]

^ thank you @KiloV, my thoughts exactly.

While the Rivian frame will do, there's tons of room for build improvement and cost savings due to saved labor time.

Why didn't Rivian do more "competitor analysis" and use best in class build?

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