Forum Conduct: Where has the common courtesy gone? [Read before posting!]

[opnwide]

I own and operate 2 car enthusiast forums.. Some of the members here would not have made it far on them.

That said...

I have to admit the forum here is like a roller coaster 25% of the time..

Either everyone is on board.. Or everyone is ready to kill.

The other 75%, is smooth operating.

To some people here, it seems like everything should be black and white, with no grey area..

Grey area is where the discussion begins, it where we all look at a problem, or potential problem, see the issue, discuss the issue, and find a remedy that may work for some.

Sometimes a issue cant be found, but at least it was brought up, and may, or may not, help a future member, or an existing member that found the issue years down the road.

In my experience here, pricing seems to be the hot button issue to really tick some people off.

I personally dont care. If a member is degrading my opinion, then theres this handy little feature called ignore. So far no one has made it there. I dont mind the quick snipe, even though completely uncalled for, it can make for levity. People sitting on each side of the keyboard dont know the mood the other is in. So taking it with a grain of salt is always in order.

But there are members here that take it to far, quite often.

We all come from different walks of life.. Some of us have our noses in the air, some of us have our noses to the grind stone. Looking down your proverbial nose at another member makes for some real volatility.

Respect is a word that holds no value anymore, at least to me. To many expecting respect when none is earned, or warranted. I have nothing but respect for @opnwide , I asked for help with a problem, and he provided a quick, and easy solution. But he earned it... (and I am thankful for his help!).

So how about people just realize we dont all walk the same walk of life. What works for some, will not work for all.

Edit: I will also admit I am probably the most critical of Rivian than your average poster, if not the most critical. The response I get from some is why are you buying a Rivian then.. Because I am just as critical about every other manufacture.. Whether its Rivian, Ford, GM, etc... I hold them all to the same candle. So I am not going to give Rivian a "pass" just because they are a new vehicle manufacture... That just makes me be more critical of them.

Glad I could help and hope you are enjoying your new ride!

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[TollKeeper]

Glad I could help and hope you are enjoying your new ride!

I didnt get it yet.. Was delivered to the SC last Monday, but I am pushing Delivery out to first of the year (for tax purposes), so they took the VIN back, and are going to start a new build for me middle of December.

 

[Trandall]

Was Listening to JRE Podcast the other day and Joe gave an incredible quote and said something to the effect of if everyone agreed about everything we would need no 1st amendment which means that the 1st amendment is there to protect speech that you don't agree with. What makes the U.S. so amazing is that we can peacefully coexist amongst people we disagree with... even morons from the internet. I'd rather engage in a forum with diverse perspectives/opinions than one where everyone agrees with me... that sounds boring and how would I learn anything.

 

[COdogman]

Was Listening to JRE Podcast the other day and Joe gave an incredible quote and said something to the effect of if everyone agreed about everything we would need no 1st amendment which means that the 1st amendment is there to protect speech that you don't agree with. What makes the U.S. so amazing is that we can peacefully coexist amongst people we disagree with... even morons from the internet. I'd rather engage in a forum with diverse perspectives/opinions than one where everyone agrees with me... that sounds boring and how would I learn anything.

Agree 100%.

And how dare you call me a MORON!

 

[Singletracker]

Good Evening! I was reading and rereading some of the posts this weekend and have noticed that the tone of the discussions seem to have changed over the past couple of months. When I joined this forum in early 2020, topics were on point and there existed a mutual respect among members. This does not mean that we always agreed, but it means that debates did not regularly digress into personal attacks. In light of the recent US based thanksgiving holiday can we take a minute to remind ourselves to be thankful for an open forum to discuss our wishes and our sleuthing and share our excitement of all things Rivian. Below are some Items (Nothing you haven't seen or heard before) to consider when posting....... Feel Free to add!

- Be Respectful and Tolerant of Others
- Be Open and welcoming to people from different backgrounds and experience levels
- Help Facilitate meaningful conversations
- Share Relevant information
- No personal attacks: Disagreement is OK and even encouraged, but keep it to the facts. Recognize the difference between personal preferences and factual info
- No Trolling: Trolling is posting for the purpose of provoking negative responses

“The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins.”
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Sadly, this is the current state of our society. Too many people are just ignorant, intolerant, inconsiderate assholes and the internet offers them anonymity to say anything and behave in any way they want. Trolling has no place on this forum! I’m not sure if this type of behavior, on this forum, has gotten worse over time, but I do find myself checking in less often because of it. Sometimes, it can be pretty cringe worthy.

 

[ThumprMN]

As readers, we also have to keep in mind that we may bring our own interpretations or project our own moods on what someone else posts. Humor & Wit can be a subtle thing to deliver… and if you’re not in the right frame of mind as a reader, you may react to something not as intended.

I agree that we should be respectful and aware of our manners as we post, but as readers, we equally should do the same. And if someone posted something you don’t like, you don’t have to respond.

Example- “Someone already posted that before… go read this thread before you post again…”sure, it’s nice to point people to answers already given, but we shouldn’t assume everyone knows everything ever written in every thread before. Be helpful, not shameful in those moments. And if something is duplicated, so be it. No harm done.

 

[jjswan33]

Example- “Someone already posted that before… go read this thread before you post again…”sure, it’s nice to point people to answers already given, but we shouldn’t assume everyone knows everything ever written in every thread before. Be helpful, not shameful in those moments. And if something is duplicated, so be it. No harm done.

Common courtesy could also be considered using the search function before creating a new post ?‍

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Personally this topic is about offensiveness and decorum and frankly I'm offended by the sunshine and rainbow crowd thinking speech needs to be policed to an absurd extent. I don't find anything wrong with the content here or any of the other posters.

You're going to have friction with opposing viewpoints and as such arguments will occur. To expect everyone to be nice and hold hands while skipping down the forum together isn't reality. Conflict is a fact of life and yes, sometimes conflict leads to arguing. I wouldn't want to be in a forum where the standard was set to "never a mean word uttered" because that's boring and a great way to shutter a forum.

Without going too far you don't know if you've gone far enough and you cannot have a real discussion without risking offending the person you're talking with. Granted prolonged flame wars and shit posting aren't productive but we really don't have that here. Those topics get locked and comments get deleted.

Overall the moderation team here does a pretty good job of allowing discussion even if it gets a little heated without taking it too far. I think the answer here is maybe some of us could tone it down but others need to harden up a bit. This isn't a boardroom or a kindergarten we shouldnt have to police ourselves to that level. If it turns out to be that I know personally I will find somewhere else to spend my time as will many of the other prolific posters.

 

[COdogman]

I played Rugby for 12 years (college and a few years after), and after every game the home team invites the visitors to come drink with them at their home bar. Whatever happened on the pitch - which was sometimes ugly, was forgotten and in all those years there was never an incident during those post game parties. Everyone just hung out and talked and enjoyed some (many) beers.

We all can learn to disagree, mix it up, and then put it aside and move forward. As long as people aren't making it overly personal that should be possible. Maybe that person you disagreed with on one topic is in agreement on another topic. You'll never know if you write them off completely right away.

 

[SANZC02]

I played Rugby for 12 years (college and a few years after), and after every game the home team invites the visitors to come drink with them at their home bar. Whatever happened on the pitch - which was sometimes ugly, was forgotten and in all those years there was never an incident during those post game parties. Everyone just hung out and talked and enjoyed some (many) beers.

We all can learn to disagree, mix it up, and then put it aside and move forward. As long as people aren't making it overly personal that should be possible. Maybe that person you disagreed with on one topic is in agreement on another topic. You'll never know if you write them off completely right away.

That is the problem, everyone takes things personally and have long memories.

One of my best bosses appreciated differing opinions, we would have knock down drag out arguments in meetings and go to lunch right after. Everything was left in the meeting room and we just understood once a decision was made we all supported it. Truly was one of the best teams I worked on in my career.

 

[COdogman]

That is the problem, everyone takes things personally and have long memories.

One of my best bosses appreciated differing opinions, we would have knock down drag out arguments in meetings and go to lunch right after. Everything was left in the meeting room and we just understood once a decision was made we all supported it. Truly was one of the best teams I worked on in my career.

"Learning how to disagree" is a lost art form. It's something I wish someone would have taught me when I was much younger. It doesn't mean you can't stand up for yourself, but it teaches you how to let go when someone else goes a little too far, and in the end you learn how to not go too far yourself. Of course that is subjective. Everyone's definition of "too far" is different, which is ultimately what we are talking about here.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

"Learning how to disagree" is a lost art form. It's something I wish someone would have taught me when I was much younger. It doesn't mean you can't stand up for yourself, but it teaches you how to let go when someone else goes a little too far, and in the end you learn how to not go too far yourself. Of course that is subjective. Everyone's definition of "too far" is different, which is ultimately what we are talking about here.

That's the biggest problem. Too many people are wrapped in tissue paper these days. Too far is "anything that offends me" far too often. That's not realistic and even counterproductive.

Too far used to be obvious, stuff like calling your work or doxxing or swatting. Now it seems we went from the wild west of the internet to the romper room. I feel like this forum has been a really good happy medium so far and I hope the mods don't take a heavier hand and ruin it.

That's why I stopped checking in with the BMW forum. The line there is far too close to whiny for my taste. Its also why that forum gets like one new post a day if that. More like one comment at all a day. Most people don't like having to censor that much.

 

[TollKeeper]

"Learning how to disagree" is a lost art form. It's something I wish someone would have taught me when I was much younger. It doesn't mean you can't stand up for yourself, but it teaches you how to let go when someone else goes a little too far, and in the end you learn how to not go too far yourself. Of course that is subjective. Everyone's definition of "too far" is different, which is ultimately what we are talking about here.

But see this is where the "disconnect" happens..

In the old days.. You could disagree, but if you felt strongly enough about the issue, it also meant you could go outside, or be dragged outside, and settle it like men... There were real repercussions for expressing certain views.

Now-a-days, whats the worst repercussion that could happen? Your post gets deleted? Worst case scenario you get banned? Well they will just rejoin the forum with one of the many email accounts they have, and life goes on.

There used to be a day where men were men, and acted like it. Now...

Its a lot less painful than the old days, but no lessons were ever learned either.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

But see this is where the "disconnect" happens..

In the old days.. You could disagree, but if you felt strongly enough about the issue, it also meant you could go outside, or be dragged outside, and settle it like men... There were real repercussions for expressing certain views.

Now-a-days, whats the worst repercussion that could happen? Your post gets deleted? Worst case scenario you get banned? Well they will just rejoin the forum with one of the many email accounts they have, and life goes on.

There used to be a day where men were men, and acted like it. Now...

Its a lot less painful than the old days, but no lessons were ever learned either.

Worst case scenario online is you get doxxed and your life severely fucked up while you face mountains of death threats and public shaming. Not here thankfully, moderation happens quick enough to avoid those sorts of arguments but they do happen on other social media.

I agree some of the people on the internet could use to get their ass kicked a few times to adjust their attitudes but the solution to those people isn't to censor everyone's speech.

 

[COdogman]

But see this is where the "disconnect" happens..

In the old days.. You could disagree, but if you felt strongly enough about the issue, it also meant you could go outside, or be dragged outside, and settle it like men... There were real repercussions for expressing certain views.

Now-a-days, whats the worst repercussion that could happen? Your post gets deleted? Worst case scenario you get banned? Well they will just rejoin the forum with one of the many email accounts they have, and life goes on.

There used to be a day where men were men, and acted like it. Now...

Its a lot less painful than the old days, but no lessons were ever learned either.

I agree with that to an extent. I don't think physically fighting is going to solve any differences either. The person who "lost" the fight might have been 100% in the right the entire time. And who's to say the person who is always wrong isn't going around smashing those people they disagree with just because they can?

There are a bunch of fine lines here and humans generally aren't very good with that. Too many of us seem to step over that line if it's not clear enough that we shouldn't. I doubt we will all be in agreement on many topics anytime soon, so for me I just try to find common ground with someone even if I disagree with most of what they say or how they say it. I assume that every person I meet will have something we can agree on even if it takes some work to find it. Unfortunately we rarely get that much time to do that on the internet. We have to start somewhere... ?‍

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