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Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

Zorg

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This. All signs were pointing toward CCS winning the war and Tesla caving in to at least offering CCS at the vast majority of their superchargers and having the Tesla plug stay a proprietary thing that only Tesla and Aptera had. Now we have a massive uncertainty in the market that's going to set back the industry several years and quite possibly cause very real headaches for millions of EV owners who won't know what chargers they can use, what adapters they need, etc.

The only viable long-term solution to a split market is for nearly all stations to have both plugs available. As someone else said, there are far fewer chargers out there than vehicles. It makes no sense to have everyone carrying around an adapter when that means millions of adapters instead of thousands or tens of thousands built into the stations themselves.
In order for CCS to win the standards war, that would require decent infrastructure. And clearly Tesla has been winning the reliability battle for a while. In the long run, I don't doubt that we will have enough reliable CCS chargers to make it work, but that's years out. Chargers take a long time to build, even for Tesla and they're by far the best in the business. Then, there is the whole issue of first mover advantage. Not all locations can support multiple fast charging stations. So Tesla may have gotten some areas locked up, at least until local grid gets upgraded.

I suspect that we will end up with both CCS and NACS for a very long time. It's not a big deal.
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scottf200

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Good point, similar to Android vs Apple. Though I was thinking it's just harder to make something that works when you can't test it on every possible scenario.
Initially Superchargers just need to be tested with Tesla models (and now everything else). I'm sure what you are plugging in shouldn't make a big difference but it's just more iterations to run through when you have other soft and hardware you are plugging into.
Remember that the Magic Dock 10-ish initial sites tested several vehicles and I think all but one worked (worked = technically charged and nothing related to cord length or parking spot required).
 

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Remember that the Magic Dock 10-ish initial sites tested several vehicles and I think all but one worked (worked = technically charged and nothing related to cord length or parking spot required).
And I was able to squeeze into the right space when I charged even :) just had to take up the access next to the space too. Not saying they don't work, they clearly do, just that it will likely be more challenging to manage with a more diverse user base. I'm hoping they manage better than others have. So far they seem to be.
 

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If this deal doesnā€™t move the needle for Ford, itā€™ll be a big takeaway for other companies. The hurdle is high
 

WSea

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An insightful post.

If Tesla really wanted to disrupt the momentum and consolidation of CCS they would seek to make a deal with Wal-Mart. Of course that is easy for someone on the internet to say. It takes two to haggle.

I've seen mention of Wal-Mart's announcement to put chargers in "thousands of stores by 2030" once, buried in another thread, as this now is. Although I realize many people don't want to charge in a giant parking lot (check) or have legitimate issues with the company (check) I'm surprised it is not discussed more here and other places.

The entire April 6, 2023 announcement, as found here:


"As our customers and members continue to look for ways to save money and live better, I am excited to announce our plans at Walmart and Samā€™s Club in the U.S. to make electric vehicle (EV) ownership more accessible, reliable, convenient and affordable for them across the country. By 2030, we intend to build our own EV fast-charging network at thousands of Walmart and Samā€™s Club locations coast-to-coast. This would be in addition to the almost 1,300 EV fast-charging stations we already have available at more than 280 U.S. facilities.​
With a store or club located within 10 miles of approximately 90% of Americans, we are uniquely positioned to deliver a convenient charging option that will help make EV ownership possible whether people live in rural, suburban or urban areas. Our goal is to meet the needs of customers and members where they live and open the road to those driving across the country. Easy access to on-the-go charging is a game-changer for drivers who have been hesitant to purchase an EV for concerns they wonā€™t be able to find a charger in a clean, bright and safe location when needed.​
Whatā€™s more, with our chargers located on site with our Supercenters, Neighborhood Markets and Samā€™s Clubs, we can offer customers and members the convenience of being able to pick up essentials for their families or grab a bite to eat while they charge. And in line with our purpose, we aim to offer Every Day Low Price charging ā€“ helping ease transportation costs, still the second highest household cost for much of our country.​
At the same time, as more drivers transition to EVs, our network growth will help expand domestic EV charging capacity across states. We see our commitment today as a natural extension of our work to help customers and members live better, easier and more sustainable lives ā€“ a big win for busy families and drivers everywhere, our country and the planet.​
This plan marks the latest investment in our efforts to transform our business and product supply chains to be more regenerative, in this case helping reduce emissions and increase efficiencies for customers. For example, we announced tests across our supply chain vehicle and fuel classes toward our goal of achieving zero emissions by 2040. And as of last year, many of our W+ customers have already been receiving their deliveries via electric vehicles.​
The way vehicle ownership looks is changing fast, and so is our business. Today, we are as known for convenience as we are for Every Day Low Price. We are committed to providing customers, members, associates, suppliers and our communities at large with the services they need and want, in a way that fits their lifestyle ā€“ making EV ownership easy and simple is no exception."​
Wow, now I canā€™t get the image out of my head of accessing those chargers IN thousands of stores and avoiding people of Walmart down the aisles. Sorry- just reading your comment literally šŸ˜€
 

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CJdergroƟe

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RANs are long term profit centers. No need to stop them
They SHOULD be profit centers. The notion of "Free" charging should be gone, that will get rid of people hogging for convenience. Only charging when you need to really charge. Want free charging? Get solar on your roof. People with ride share gigs, or live in condos/apts NEED to use public charging, I go out of my way not to use them unless I really need to use one, which is practically never.

I can see another EV mfg following Ford now, maybe not as far as equipping the plug, but buying into adapter use.

Those Tesla snobs are going to be mighty pissed, there is a charger one block away from my house, it gets near capacity often. I have seen more Mach E and Lightnings around me as well, those chargers are 72kWH V2, they're relatively slow by today's standards, but better than nothing.
 

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They SHOULD be profit centers. The notion of "Free" charging should be gone, that will get rid of people hogging for convenience. Only charging when you need to really charge. Want free charging? Get solar on your roof. People with ride share gigs, or live in condos/apts NEED to use public charging, I go out of my way not to use them unless I really need to use one, which is practically never.

I can see another EV mfg following Ford now, maybe not as far as equipping the plug, but buying into adapter use.

Those Tesla snobs are going to be mighty pissed, there is a charger one block away from my house, it gets near capacity often. I have seen more Mach E and Lightnings around me as well, those chargers are 72kWH V2, they're relatively slow by today's standards, but better than nothing.
Iā€™m all for adapters being sold to everyone. The notion of a moat via charging plugs is nonsense
 

Mysta

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Adapter sounds great. Rivian switching would be suicide.

Tesla's NACS licensing requires mutual patent indemnity. It's mostly upside for Ford, which has relatively slow-charging vehicles, limited investment in O&O charging infrastructure, limited technology differentiation in their EV portfolio, and lots to gain in terms of infrastructure (and quickly).

Rivian has tons of differentiated IP in the drivetrain, suspension, software, etc., huge investments in scaling out charging infrastructure, a desire to support higher voltage architecture in the future, and tons to lose if they cede ground to connector fragmentation.

It's a brilliant strategy from Tesla to disrupt the momentum and consolidation around CCS - they're doing this to fragment the competition, in a way that looks like pure upside to Ford. But it's a nightmare for consolidating on a charging standard in the US. Welcome to the next ten years of standards wars. Sigh.
Yep, basically what I said. From a high level, Rivian is executing their RAN rollout smooth. They will be the first large scale rollout of a Tesla experience. Tesla needed something to basically stop magic dock without being the bad guy. Now theyā€™ve ā€œmade newsā€ and halted the consolidation of ev to one standard and temporarily kept tesla network somewhat stable.
Guys, the problem isnā€™t the plug. Good implementations of CCS exist. When you use a good charger you donā€™t give a crap about the minor weight difference for the 2 seconds you hold it (not to mention advantages of CCS). This is 100% about control
 

DuoRivians

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Yep, basically what I said. From a high level, Rivian is executing their RAN rollout smooth. They will be the first large scale rollout of a Tesla experience. Tesla needed something to basically stop magic dock without being the bad guy. Now theyā€™ve ā€œmade newsā€ and halted the consolidation of ev to one standard and temporarily kept tesla network somewhat stable.
Guys, the problem isnā€™t the plug. Good implementations of CCS exist. When you use a good charger you donā€™t give a crap about the minor weight difference for the 2 seconds you hold it (not to mention advantages of CCS). This is 100% about control
Definitely, itā€™s about Tesla trying to have control over the EV ecosystem
 

cdub

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The NACS Tesla plug is obviously what the standard should be. Rivian should offer it.

Heck I see no reason why there can't be BOTH connections on the car until it's all sorted out.

Rivian should definitely take Tesla up on this deal and build the RAN network with NACS plugs too.
 

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SANZC02

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The NACS Tesla plug is obviously what the standard should be. Rivian should offer it.

Heck I see no reason why there can't be BOTH connections on the car until it's all sorted out.

Rivian should definitely take Tesla up on this deal and build the RAN network with NACS plugs too.
Not the first time a company squandered an opportunity.

Sony did it with the Betamax that was by general considered the better recording media and because of licensing lost out the VHS.

Being the technical best is no guarantee it will become the standard.
 

SSteveEV

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I bought an adapter on Amazon and was told now that I canā€™t use it or it wouldā€™nt work after I paid $150. Very frustrating when yourā€™re looking for chargers and all you
see is Teslas charge stations everywhere if youā€™re traveling or in a town that has nothing else to offer..
You probably got one of the ones that only works for level 2 charging not the supercharging. I have the same Lectron 40A option which is helpful for some charging. Hang on to it, you may need it someday. (Supercharging adapters are not yet available)
 

swhme

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I don't have a lot of EA chargng experience (1700 miles in "flyover country," all east of the Mississippi) but I've only seen one other Rivian charging in the wild--a launch green R1T in Greenville, AL.

I've seen at least one Lightning at most of the EA stations I've charged at. FWIW, at least a third of the owners I talked to had bought them used.

Not much of a sample, but I do think it's heavily dependent on where you are driving.
Interesting! In the northeast, when Iā€™m charging between Maine and NYC, thereā€™s always at least one other Rivian, often more. Iā€™d rank the popularity of vehicles at charging stations that Iā€™ve come across, in order:
  1. Kia EV6/Hyundai Ioniq
  2. VW ID4
  3. Rivian
  4. Taycan
  5. Mach-E
 

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When Ford releases the next gen F-150 lightning and Ranger Lightning with the NACS plug this is going to be HUGE.
 

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When Ford releases the next gen F-150 lightning and Ranger Lightning with the NACS plug this is going to be HUGE.
I think it has a risk of pulling customers away from Tesla more than it does the other manufacturers. A lot of Tesla buyers live under this assumption that you can't do road trips in a non-Tesla vehicle because of this perpetuation that the conglomeration of CCS networks is unviable.

Ford seems to be doing all they can to entice people away from their competitors. Their "we will still have carplay" announcement after GM said they were removing it from their future EVs.
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