Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[SANZC02]

Valid reasons. But these are not Joe Blow on internet forums like all of us. They are people in the industry and car manufacturers (ala wide sampling of data). The author has a very long history and depth of knowledge and contacts. He has decades of experience and contacts. I've followed him for many many years.

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"one source—who, like the other five interviewed for this piece, insisted on anonymity to preserve industry confidentiality. "

I stand behind my reservations on accepting/believing anyone speaking anonymously.

If it is worth saying they should be willing to stand behind their statements.

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[HaveBlue]

This just feels like cell phones 20 years ago when you had to throw your cdma phone away to switch carriers on gsm and vs versa. Same with just charging your new phone. But then, gas stations sell diesel and e85 too.

 

[scottf200]

EA poor CCS example: From a Twitter post about an hour ago all *6* CCS EA chargers down.

 

[DuoRivians]

EA poor CCS example: From a Twitter post about an hour ago all *6* CCS EA chargers down.

It is EA, not CCS, that’s the issue here. Don’t conflate the issues to try to sell a poor narrative

 

[rydb]

Meh.. I hope Rivian sticks with CCS. For all the hype on the SC network every time I go to the Fred Meyer in Sandy (today included) I see a Tesla using the EA station and open stalls on the SC.

On second thought this is good for Rivian owners. All those Mach E and Lightnings can use the SC and leave the CCS slots open for us

I talked to one guy charging a Tesla at an EA station and he told me he did it because he had another EV with included charging and that EA isn't currently ID'ing the vehicle, so the free charging is just on your account and when you activate a charge with your app it's free even when it's your Tesla plugged in. So at least some of these people may be charging at EA CCS chargers because it's free and the SC wouldn't be.

 

[scottf200]

It is EA, not CCS, that’s the issue here. Don’t conflate the issues to try to sell a poor narrative

Curious. As Rivians are purchased by people other than early adopters it seems they
will consider all brands as their available CCS network and I assume they all show up on the Rivan trip planner. Uptime matters on the whole CCS network as it ruins the image when owners talk to their friends and potential new owners about their general charging experience.

EA/Electrify America seems to be the largest and statistically would be used the most.

Is there better options than PlugShare to see all CCS chargers and their companies?
[I see you can download a CSV by brand from https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html]

EA:

 

[DuoRivians]

Curious. As Rivians are purchased by people other than early adopters it seems they
will consider all brands as their available CCS network and I assume they all show up on the Rivan trip planner. Uptime matters on the whole CCS network as it ruins the image when owners talk to their friends and potential new owners.

EA/Electrify America seems to be the largest and statistically would be used the most.

Is there better options than PlugShare to see all CCS chargers and their companies?

EA:

So, blame EA for being shitty. Not because they have CCS. If EA offered NACS plugs, they would still be shitty

 

[azbill]

CCS vehicles don't connect the charger to the battery?

CCS vehicles have separate inputs and wires for AC and DC voltage. There is a set of charging contactors between the DC wires and the battery. When the charger is ready and all the communication is done it closes the contactors and is connected directly to the battery.

The on-board charger has a set of contactors between it and the battery, those are open during DC charging. When AC charging, those contactors are closed, providing DC to the battery, and the DC input contactors are left open. Thus the on-board charger is always isolated from the DC power input.

In a CCS system, if one contactor welds shut, there is still no way for an AC to DC short, nor a DC to DC short at the on-board charger output. A CCS connector cannot be supplying 240V via the J1772 pins that are used for L2 chargers, that is by design. It is what is known as a "fail-safe" design.

In the Tesla schematic, they had to put two sets of contactors between the charger and the battery, and they had to design the on-board charger to accept AC and DC input voltages. It is also not clear why they do not isolate the on-board charger output when DC charging.

 

[DuoRivians]

CCS vehicles have separate inputs and wires for AC and DC voltage. There is a set of charging contactors between the DC wires and the battery. When the charger is ready and all the communication is done it closes the contactors and is connected directly to the battery.

The on-board charger has a set of contactors between it and the battery, those are open during DC charging. When AC charging, those contactors are closed, providing DC to the battery, and the DC input contactors are left open. Thus the on-board charger is always isolated from the DC power input.

In a CCS system, if one contactor welds shut, there is still no way for an AC to DC short, nor a DC to DC short at the on-board charger output. A CCS connector cannot be supplying 240V via the J1772 pins that are used for L2 chargers, that is by design. It is what is known as a "fail-safe" design.

In the Tesla schematic, they had to put two sets of contactors between the charger and the battery, and they had to design the on-board charger to accept AC and DC input voltages. It is also not clear why they do not isolate the on-board charger output when DC charging.

CCS seems more amenable to V2L/H/V as well. I hear that it’s possible with NACS too, but not as clean or straightforward

 

[RayzorBEV]

I hope Rivian will do the same and adapt Tesla's plug or have Tesla open their SC to Rivian using an adapter. I'm tired of EA's crappy charging network.

 

[emoore]

Ford CEO said today on CNBC that they will provide a CCS network adapter, so the vehicles will have NACS only starting in 2025. Adding to OP.

I don't know about you all and I don't know how much Tesla will give up control of NACS, but their stuff is superior and I'd rather just have one standard.

Yep Id rather have one standard too. But it’s not going to be NACS.

 

[zefram47]

I hope Rivian will do the same and adapt Tesla's plug orchave Tesla open their SC to Rivian using an adapter. I'm tired of EA's crappy charging network.

I have zero desire for the Tesla plug (which is not a recognized and open standard, regardless of what Elon would have you believe). But I'd gladly buy a CCS to Tesla SC adapter and use it if CCS were not available on a road trip.

 

[DuoRivians]

I have zero desire for the Tesla plug (which is not a recognized and open standard, regardless of what Elon would have you believe). But I'd gladly buy a CCS to Tesla SC adapter and use it if CCS were not available on a road trip.

Exactly this. Both charging options available to customers, without having Rivian committing to anything Tesla

 

[RayzorBEV]

So, blame EA for being shitty. Not because they have CCS. If EA offered NACS plugs, they would still be shitty

I totally agreed. EA sucks. I've been forced to use them for the last few miserable years (Polestar-2, R1T, R1S) Compared to my Tesla using SCs, I vote for Tesla's SC network anytime.

 

[emoore]

This is a great marketing campaign by ford. And really that’s all it is. I will be shocked if they added the Tesla plug to their EVs.

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