Ford/Tesla Deal: Access to Superchargers, adapter coming, future EVs will have NACS (Tesla) port

[Dark-Fx]

- Percentage up time is dramatically different.
- Number of stalls (ports) per charging site is dramatically different.

Tesla has only had to deal with Tesla vehicles so far in the US. You really need to compare Tesla against the bulk of the other networks since there is a connector difference between them. As a percentage of vehicles produced, Tesla is falling behind in coverage now.

Sponsored

 

[scottf200]

Ford CEO said today on CNBC that they will provide a CCS network adapter, so the vehicles will have NACS only starting in 2025. Adding to OP.

We absolutely do not know that Ford will only end up with the NACS only. Even Emma Bergg (Global Director, Electric Vehicles & BlueOval City Comms for Ford.) said so: "There is a transition period... we're engineering for NACS starting in '25.
Having both inlet ports is an option for us - but nothing more to share right now. More to come!"

 

[itselectric]

We absolutely do not know that Ford will only end up with the NACS only. Even Emma Bergg (Global Director, Electric Vehicles & BlueOval City Comms for Ford.) said so: "There is a transition period... we're engineering for NACS starting in '25.
Having both inlet ports is an option for us - but nothing more to share right now. More to come!"

They might want to get their comms together lol. That's not what he said on TV.

 

[scottf200]

Tesla has only had to deal with Tesla vehicles so far in the US. You really need to compare Tesla against the bulk of the other networks since there is a connector difference between them.

The Magic Dock test cases have proved to work well except for 1 brand AFAIK.

13.2 Tesla stalls (plugs) per site is dramatically better than the others with 4|5|6.

 

[CharonPDX]

Ford CEO said today on CNBC that they will provide a CCS network adapter, so the vehicles will have NACS only starting in 2025. Adding to OP.

I don't know about you all and I don't know how much Tesla will give up control of NACS, but their stuff is superior and I'd rather just have one standard.

Did he actually specify "NACS only"? The press releases so far make it sound like it would be an option. Either "in addition to" or "customers chooses to replace" CCS isn't clear. But the releases definitely made it sound optional, not mandatory.

 

[Dark-Fx]

The Magic Dock test cases have proved to work well except for 1 brand AFAIK.

13.2 stalls (plugs) per site is dramatically better than 4/5/6.

That's because it's dramatically easier to put more stations in at one site versus having additional sites. Other networks don't have that focus because their overall area of coverage is lacking. Tesla already has coverage in most areas.

 

[itselectric]

Did he actually specify "NACS only"? The press releases so far make it sound like it would be an option. Either "in addition to" or "customers chooses to replace" CCS isn't clear. But the releases definitely made it sound optional, not mandatory.

Here's the interview. Unfortunately you have to watch most of it for context as he seems pretty nervous and doesn't articulate the message well. Start watching around 2 minutes 30 seconds, he says:

"The other standard is great, we will have adapters for that" in the context of switching to NACS but allowing customers to still use ccs.

 

[CharonPDX]

Almost guaranteed Hyundai / Kia will NOT be the next. The eGMP platform is an 800V platform and the V2 / V3 superchargers supposedly top out at 500V. They would provide an inferior charging session compared with 500A capable 350 kW CCS units. I can't find an exact spec, but the eGMP cars have to boost the 400V input to 800V and most cars that do this are only around 100 kW where on an 800+V charger they'll do closer to 240 kW.

"NACS" (as opposed to "Tesla Supercharger") does specify 800V architecture available; and Tesla Supercharger V4 in theory will have it, too.

But imagine if Hyundai/Kia did switch, a poor Kia-brand loyalist:

2017: Yay, new Kia Soul EV with CHAdeMO, the predominant open DC charging standard in the US!

2022: Hrm, new Kia EV6 with CCS, the now-predominant open DC charging standard in the US. I guess they're more common than CHAdeMO now, but this will take some getting used to…

2027: Ugh. new Kia EV9 with NACS, the now-predominant open DC charging standard in the US. I'm tired of having a new plug every new car…..

 

[Zorg]

It really is not. Tesla stans just keep repeating it trying to make it true. If you live in an area with bad coverage it's because you are an outlier in your area with your interest in EVs, and your state is openly hostile to them

The poor reliability of EA stations has been well documented. Furthermore Tesla is rolling out SCs way faster than EA. Right now EA is the only CCS nationwide network. Now, 10 years from now, this shouldn't matter as multiple networks will come on line that will take care of this. But for the next few years, having access to Tesla SC network is a major advantage. This last point is pretty obvious.

 

[scottf200]

That's because it's dramatically easier to put more stations in at one site versus having additional sites.

Other networks don't have that focus because their overall area of coverage is lacking. Tesla already has coverage in most areas.

I don't understand either of those reasonings.

More stations require negotiating more parking lot space and more power from the utility company in a given area.

The area of coverage seems the opposite. Make sure there are plugs/stalls available in the ones that you do put in otherwise you have big queues and if 1 of 4 stalls is broken that is 25%.

Other networks are just trying to do smaller ones to save money and investment as one way of looking at it.

 

[Dark-Fx]

More stations require negotiating more parking lot space and more power from the utility company in a given area.

Two sites require twice as many negotiations. Tesla has more clout so it's easier for them to convince other organizations.

The area of coverage seems the opposite. Make sure there are plugs/stalls available in the ones that you do put in otherwise you have big queues and if 1 of 4 stalls is broken that is 25%.

I've never had to wait for a CCS station but I haven't been in California with an EV.

 

[SANZC02]

The poor reliability of EA stations has been well documented. Furthermore Tesla is rolling out SCs way faster than EA. Right now EA is the only CCS nationwide network. Now, 10 years from now, this shouldn't matter as multiple networks will come on line that will take care of this. But for the next few years, having access to Tesla SC network is a major advantage. This last point is pretty obvious.

I think most of the reported issues are exaggerated for the purpose of fear-mongering. There are many people on this forum telling people that the EA stations are way more reliable than being reported but since it goes against the EA sucks mantra that message is discounted.

I have had a couple of sessions that were degraded but overall my EA experience has been positive. That includes a 5100 mile trip around the country that had 33 charging stops and no issues.

 

[scottf200]

I think most of the reported issues are exaggerated for the purpose of fear-mongering. There are many people on this forum telling people that the EA stations are way more reliable than being reported but since it goes against the EA sucks mantra that message is discounted.

I have had a couple of sessions that were degraded but overall my EA experience has been positive. That includes a 5100 mile trip around the country that had 33 charging stops and no issues.

It really is not. Tesla stans just keep repeating it trying to make it true. If you live in an area with bad coverage it's because you are an outlier in your area with your interest in EVs, and your state is openly hostile to them

Several people interviewed for this piece. "

Carmakers' frustration by now is 'off the charts',"​

Via: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44016347/ford-tesla-ev-charging-opinion/

 

[SANZC02]

Several people interviewed for this piece. "

Carmakers' frustration by now is 'off the charts',"​

Via: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a44016347/ford-tesla-ev-charging-opinion/

Love people with opinions that refuse to identify themselves….

 

[itselectric]

I'm a little stunned to see anyone defend CCS here, at all.

There's literally nothing better about it. It's more expensive to set up, the cables/connectors are much heavier, the networks are nowhere near as good in reliability both in terms of working at all and overall speeds.

I get that people are concerned Tesla may monopolize "fuel" but it can be unequivocally stated that NACS (Tesla SCs) >>>>>>>>>>>>> CCS in every single way.

Electrify America is horrible. I took a friend of mine on a mini-road trip and had to stop at 3 different EA stations, none of the first chargers we tried work. At one, we got stuck there for 30 minutes calling customer support to have them reset a charger and only 1/3 chargers had full speed available for us, the other two were slower than they should have been based on state of charge.

My friend, who has never been in an EV before said "man, are they all like this? I can see why people don't want an EV." I had to tell him that no, Tesla's SCs are actually quite good to which he responded that maybe I should buy another Tesla instead.

I could tell you countless annoying stories with EA from the charger not recognizing that I am no longer plugged in which made it so I couldn't plug in at any other station or location, to randomly stopping charge without notifying me just to come back 20 minutes later to a battery that isn't full, we purposely do not take our CCS-based EV on road trips anymore because of it.

Sponsored