First winter drive that had 90% good thoughts that ended in maybe the 3rd worst outcome

[Golfer04]

My question for the MN guys is what efficiency loss do you see in the cold weather? Just in high 30s in central Illinois now and I'm down 15 percent (at least). I've got 49,000 miles on this going into my 2nd winter, and I would not buy an R1T if I lived any further north. Needs a heat pump bad. Supposedly the new DM in the oil bath dies better, but I haven't heard any real world numbers.

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[vandy1981]

That is an easy fix, I had a screw in one of my 22s in a very similar spot, had it patched and balanced at Americas tire, been fine for over 5k miles so far.

If you have a tire place you use a lot, they may do it for free, America’s Tire did not charge me.

That puncture may be too close to the sidewall for a reputable/risk averse tire shop to plug or patch.

 

[R.I.P.]

When did you test DM in snow?

We have been running DMs in the snow since September (Siskiyous).

 

[R1Thor]

The easy fix for the puncture is a plug; the slightly more complicated - and more expensive - fix is a patch. Patching repairs are practically fail-proof and IMO are worth the extra cost for the increased peace of mind.

With respect to snow tires, all the testing data that I've seen indicates that their biggest benefit is found during braking and turning on snow and slush-covered road surfaces. Shorter braking distances and more secure control in winter conditions are worth the added cost of snow tires IMO.

Don't forget about glass transition temperature.

In colder temperatures, you'll have better coefficient of friction using dedicated winter tires, period. your traction will be better in virtually all aspects (there are some caveats, but not worth exploring in this conversation--under NORMAL driving conditions in cold temperatures and/or inclement weather, this statement holds true). Even "all-season" (should be called 3-season, but ...marketing) tires compounds will become harder, reducing their overall frictional grip.

Never cheap out on anything that comes between you and the ground!

 

[usofrob]

I've been wondering about the pro/cons of winter tires in the winter in SE Michigan because I don't drive to work, and they tend to clear the roads the same day or the next. So, it's usually only risky during the storm or shortly after. Then it's mostly dry and cold. I have had winter tires on my vehicles for the last few years, but the dry grip is just soo much lower. It makes me wonder if I'd have more grip on average if I used (more snow oriented) A/S tires like the new M/S2 tires.

But I also wonder if when it gets really cold (again, not a normal problem in SE Michigan) if the winter tires would actually have better grip in the dry than good all seasons.

Anecdote, I have a Lotus Elise that I drive year round. I had Bridgestone RE-71R tires (200TW super summer tires) and I had some Blizzaks. I found I had more grip with the summer tires even around 30 degrees in the dry than my Blizzaks. But, lightly wet would be similar, and with snow the summer tires were obviously dangerous to be on. I've only done that to drive the car in a garage to get my winter tires on when I waited too long. I drove my 2015 Model S 90D around with the stock A/S tires for 50k miles without too much difficulty in the winter.

However, my favorite tires for the winter were some performance winter tires (Michelin PILOT ALPIN PA4) on my high HP sports car. They have the right balance of snow capabilities and wet/dry capabilities. I miss those tires. I'd get a set of those for every vehicle that I could. They handled like a dry summer tire in the winter, just with lower grip. I've had the Blizzaks on two vehicles and they are waaay too wobbly. I've had to pull off the road multiple times because I thought something was loose, but it was just the tires. I had to run higher PSI to get it to not wobbly too much, but even then the tread was so squirmy. I think the latest snow tires are probably better on that. But still, performance snow tires all the way!

Edit to add, I know what I'm putting on my model 3 when my current winter tires run out: https://tires.costco.com/SearchResultsByItemOrPart?lang=en-us&partno=38407

 

[Supratachophobia]

I just purchased a set of Michelin X-Ice Snows in 22s for our mild winters here in the PNW. Although we don’t get a lot of snow, it is cheap insurance to have the extra winter traction.

I've run Michelin iceX on the Tesla for 8 years in the winter. They are superb.

 

[Kuro-Rivian]

The problem is I have 21s and there are no alternatives. It appears you have 20s and have all the alternatives.

Bite the bullet and order a set of 20" from the service center. Slap a set of Toyo Open Country winter tires on them. They are specifically spec'd for heavy trucks. Harder compound, deeper starting tread. Had a full season on them last year with R1T. As you learned, it's not the going, it's the stopping. There is no getting around the fact this is a 7000# truck and winter tires help immensely. If you're in the Minneapolis area and you want to do that, msg me and I can give you the name of a mobile tire guy who will even come to you to do the tires. You also don't need TPMS from Rivian to save some $$. Universal TPMS work and by cloning your existing TPMS. If you plan on keeping the truck for any period of tire, spending $$ for a dedicated 20" winter set is a no brainer. SC can reprogrammed your truck for 20" wheels for a fee, but it's a huge PIA to do seasonally.

 

[Budman]

My question for the MN guys is what efficiency loss do you see in the cold weather? Just in high 30s in central Illinois now and I'm down 15 percent (at least). I've got 49,000 miles on this going into my 2nd winter, and I would not buy an R1T if I lived any further north. Needs a heat pump bad. Supposedly the new DM in the oil bath dies better, but I haven't heard any real world numbers.

This thread documents the range/efficiency change vs temperature I've seen over the last 1.5 years of ownership on a 165 mile road trip I do frequently. The lack of a heat pump is maybe unfortunate but not a deal breaker. I'm confident using the R1T is sub zero weather.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...r1t-road-trip-range-vs-temperature-data.8782/

 

[emoore]

This thread documents the range/efficiency change vs temperature I've seen over the last 1.5 years of ownership on a 165 mile road trip I do frequently. The lack of a heat pump is maybe unfortunate but not a deal breaker. I'm confident using the R1T is sub zero weather.

https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...r1t-road-trip-range-vs-temperature-data.8782/

Yeah a heat pump isn't going to magically make the Rivian go twice as far in the winter. Might add a small amount of efficiency but the seat heaters, steering wheel heater, and rear defrost are still going to be resistance heaters.

 

[Golfer04]

I'm on 20s so you get better efficiency to begin with, but even with that you get better results than I do. Drove 125 miles today in 38 degrees. Was windy, but round trip so should even out. 1.61 mi/khw. Doesn't help that this is a charging desert. Tom M from state of charge had 20s also. His observation is same as mine.....efficiency starts to drop at 50 degrees & continues to drop until it gets down to 1. Around 15 degrees.

 

[R.I.P.]

Bite the bullet and order a set of 20" from the service center. Slap a set of Toyo Open Country winter tires on them. They are specifically spec'd for heavy trucks. Harder compound, deeper starting tread. Had a full season on them last year with R1T. As you learned, it's not the going, it's the stopping. There is no getting around the fact this is a 7000# truck and winter tires help immensely. If you're in the Minneapolis area and you want to do that, msg me and I can give you the name of a mobile tire guy who will even come to you to do the tires. You also don't need TPMS from Rivian to save some $$. Universal TPMS work and by cloning your existing TPMS. If you plan on keeping the truck for any period of tire, spending $$ for a dedicated 20" winter set is a no brainer. SC can reprogrammed your truck for 20" wheels for a fee, but it's a huge PIA to do seasonally.

Somebody else running Open County's... nice. We swear my these in the PNW.

 

[R.I.P.]

Yeah a heat pump isn't going to magically make the Rivian go twice as far in the winter. Might add a small amount of efficiency but the seat heaters, steering wheel heater, and rear defrost are still going to be resistance heaters.

No, not "twice as far", but the difference is significant... And I miss the HP when I am driving the R1.

 

[emoore]

No, not "twice as far", but the difference is significant... And I miss the HP when I am driving the R1.

It would be more significant on a more energy efficient EV but I don't think it would be much on the Rivian R1.

 

[R.I.P.]

It would be more significant on a more energy efficient EV but I don't think it would be much on the Rivian R1.

... Just using up to 5x less energy heating your cabin & battery, that is all.

5x less energy to heat the cabin & battery? Over a couple of days road trip in the cold? Yes please.

 

[emoore]

... Just using up to 5x less energy heating your cabin & battery, that is all.

5x less energy to heat the cabin & battery? Over a couple of days road trip in the cold? Yes please.

I agree that it's better, I just don't think it's going to get you an extra 50 miles of range in the winter.

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