Fast Charging impact on battery life [Engineering Explained}

[narmstrong79]

Another great video from Engineering Explained. I've always said, Public charging shouldn't be used like gas stations.

Updated with summary generated by Chatgpt

Summary

• ? Fast Charging Accelerates Battery Degradation
  Studies show that higher charging rates lead to faster battery wear, with faster degradation occurring when using fast charging frequently.
• ? Why Faster Charging Degrades Batteries
  Fast charging throws lithium ions into the battery faster than they can properly diffuse within the graphite particles, causing lithium plating and eventual damage.
• Factors Influencing Degradation
  Three main factors affect degradation: state of charge, charge rate, and battery temperature. At high states of charge, the lithium ions have fewer available spaces, increasing the risk of lithium plating.
• ? Temperature’s Role
  Warmer batteries reduce the risk of lithium plating, but temperatures that are too high can increase SEI layer formation, causing long-term capacity loss.
• ? Practical Solutions
  Electric vehicles automatically adjust charging rates and temperatures to minimize the effects of fast charging. While fast charging has some impact, modern batteries and vehicle systems mitigate most negative effects.

Insights Based on Numbers

• 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.
• Temperature effect on degradation: A warmer battery charged at around 25°C could achieve over 3,000 full cycles before significant capacity loss occurred, compared to cold batteries, which suffer more from lithium plating.

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[Blueassassin]

summary or conclusions for those of us that don't have time or want to watch the video?

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

I’ve been thinking about this. I ave a charger that can adjust power. I wonder if it makes sense to drop it to 9kwh or something like that. It’s a slower charge but will always be done by the morning. Not sure if 11 —> 9 matters as much as fast charge to Lvl 2, which is a much greater gap in power.

 

[Electric Rivilution]

Another great video from Engineering Explained. I've always said, Public charging shouldn't be used like gas stations.

Video Description:
Does fast charging your electric car ruin the battery? It’s obvious that for convenience, and for those that can’t charge at home, the ability to fast charge a battery is critical for electric cars to be widely viable. But, studies repeatedly show that the faster your charging rate, the more degradation a battery has, which naturally raises the following questions that we’ll break down: 1. Does a faster charging rate degrade a battery faster? 2. Why does faster charging degrade a battery faster? 3. What practical solutions exist to prevent battery degradation from fast charging? 4. Do you need to actually think about it, or is it fine to regularly use fast chargers?

Thanks for sharing. Here's a summary of the video by Chatgpt

Summary

• ? Fast Charging Accelerates Battery Degradation
  Studies show that higher charging rates lead to faster battery wear, with faster degradation occurring when using fast charging frequently.
• ? Why Faster Charging Degrades Batteries
  Fast charging throws lithium ions into the battery faster than they can properly diffuse within the graphite particles, causing lithium plating and eventual damage.
• Factors Influencing Degradation
  Three main factors affect degradation: state of charge, charge rate, and battery temperature. At high states of charge, the lithium ions have fewer available spaces, increasing the risk of lithium plating.
• ?️ Temperature’s Role
  Warmer batteries reduce the risk of lithium plating, but temperatures that are too high can increase SEI layer formation, causing long-term capacity loss.
• ? Practical Solutions
  Electric vehicles automatically adjust charging rates and temperatures to minimize the effects of fast charging. While fast charging has some impact, modern batteries and vehicle systems mitigate most negative effects.

Insights Based on Numbers

• 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.
• Temperature effect on degradation: A warmer battery charged at around 25°C could achieve over 3,000 full cycles before significant capacity loss occurred, compared to cold batteries, which suffer more from lithium plating.

 

[narmstrong79]

Thanks for sharing. Here's a summary of the video by Chatgpt

Summary

• ? Fast Charging Accelerates Battery Degradation
  Studies show that higher charging rates lead to faster battery wear, with faster degradation occurring when using fast charging frequently.
• ? Why Faster Charging Degrades Batteries
  Fast charging throws lithium ions into the battery faster than they can properly diffuse within the graphite particles, causing lithium plating and eventual damage.
• Factors Influencing Degradation
  Three main factors affect degradation: state of charge, charge rate, and battery temperature. At high states of charge, the lithium ions have fewer available spaces, increasing the risk of lithium plating.
• ? Temperature’s Role
  Warmer batteries reduce the risk of lithium plating, but temperatures that are too high can increase SEI layer formation, causing long-term capacity loss.
• ? Practical Solutions
  Electric vehicles automatically adjust charging rates and temperatures to minimize the effects of fast charging. While fast charging has some impact, modern batteries and vehicle systems mitigate most negative effects.

Insights Based on Numbers

• 5% degradation difference: A study found that after 50,000 miles, a car charged exclusively with fast chargers retained 70% of its original capacity compared to 75% for slow-charged cars.
• Temperature effect on degradation: A warmer battery charged at around 25°C could achieve over 3,000 full cycles before significant capacity loss occurred, compared to cold batteries, which suffer more from lithium plating.

Thanks - F--ing robots win again

 

[elatrickWheels]

I say, life is too short to worry about things like this. Charge at home, but not to 100% if and when you can, and charge at a fast charger when you need to. Then get on with life. There are plenty of other things to worry about.

 

[emoore]

This makes no sense. Your summary says after 50000 miles a batter lost 25% capacity for slow charging and 30% for fast charging? Maybe a Nissan leaf but data from Tesla and other EVs show a much lower amount of degradation.

 

[PaythePiper]

I say, life is too short to worry about things like this. Charge at home, but not to 100% if and when you can, and charge at a fast charger when you need to. Then get on with life. There are plenty of other things to worry about.

People get so worked up over battery health. You should see the Apple MacBook Reddit lol

 

[Budman]

The 50,000 mile degradation numbers make no sense at all. I carefully tested my at 42,000 miles and found about 2% to 3% degradation. I'm about to do another test at 54,000 miles and will post the results soon. That will be the last chance I get to do it on my current R1T. I'm trading it in next week for a Gen 2 R1T max pack!

See my battery degradation test results here;
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...just-3-degradation-2022-r1t-quad-motor.27821/

 

[No_Name5330]

This makes no sense. Your summary says after 50000 miles a batter lost 25% capacity for slow charging and 30% for fast charging? Maybe a Nissan leaf but data from Tesla and other EVs show a much lower amount of degradation.

You are correct that it is a Nissan Leaf, I watched the video and he said it was a 2012 Nissan leaf with an air cooled battery that was tested in Arizona. Basically this means that it was a very old chemistry AND it had a sub par cooling system in terms of battery degradation AND it was tested in super high temps which we learn is bad for degradation as well. So as far as i’m concerned this study was very skewed and could have had much better testing conditions.

 

[emoore]

You are correct that it is a Nissan Leaf, I watched the video and he said it was a 2012 Nissan leaf with an air cooled battery that was tested in Arizona. Basically this means that it was a very old chemistry AND it had a sub par cooling system in terms of battery degradation AND it was tested in super high temps which we learn is bad for degradation as well. So as far as i’m concerned this study was very skewed and could have had much better testing conditions.

Agree. Nothing is really applicable to batteries today.

 

[SANZC02]

Numbers are just off based on my experience.

I have a 2016 Model S. Max charge rate is around 120kWh at a Supercharger. After 8+ years, 95k miles and probably 98% of my charging at Superchargers, I still have 92% of original range.

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