F-150 Lightning will also vehicle-to-vehicle charge

[Electronaut]

Ford confirmed:

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/thr...ning-can-do-vehicle-to-vehicle-charging.7053/

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[Dbeglor]

Nice to add to the brochure, but I'm not sure it has wide applicability in the real world. The V2L and V2H/V2G are far more practical.

 

[PastyPilgrim]

Nice to add to the brochure, but I'm not sure it has wide applicability in the real world. The V2L and V2H/V2G are far more practical.

Really? I'd expect V2V to probably be the most useful thing because it provides a mechanism to assist people that run out of juice. What happens now if your EV runs out of charge before you can get to a charger? You've pretty much gotta be towed at the moment, right? There could be specialized recovery vehicles with big generators or batteries, but it'd sure be more convenient to just call your friend with a lightning. And as lightnings proliferate it could be even easier than that.

Another interesting use case that would fit Rivian's adventure branding is if you could use V2V to charge things like an electric snowmobile, dirt bike, etc. The batteries on those things have to be tiny so V2V could make a whole day of snowmobiling viable!

 

[Dbeglor]

Really? I'd expect V2V to probably be the most useful thing because it provides a mechanism to assist people that run out of juice. What happens now if your EV runs out of charge before you can get to a charger? You've pretty much gotta be towed at the moment, right? There could be specialized recovery vehicles with big generators or batteries, but it'd sure be more convenient to just call your friend with a lightning. And as lightnings proliferate it could be even easier than that.

Another interesting use case that would fit Rivian's adventure branding is if you could use V2V to charge things like an electric snowmobile, dirt bike, etc. The batteries on those things have to be tiny so V2V could make a whole day of snowmobiling viable!

Well, a couple things. It's extremely unlikely that you'll run out of juice, roughly the same probability you'll run out of gas because it's within your control.

As far as Rivian goes, they will have a service to juice you up in the event that happens, which will be much more reliable than hoping that an EV with V2V charging capabilities happens to drive by and decides to stop. But again, I think this will rarely ever happen, except for the people that routinely run out of gas due to their own mistakes.

Plus, remember that the Rivian likely doesn't need V2V to accept a charge from an F150, it's a power source like any other. So, more power (pun intended) to Ford for enabling an F150 to charge my Rivian in the rare instance I need it, because there will be far more of them out on the roads than R1Ts, probably by a factor of 10:1 or more by 2025.

Charging smaller things like you mentioned would be far more useful and prevalent, though from what I can tell, I'm not sure how often you'd even need to do that. The Taiga electric snowmobile has like 80-90 mi of range. Does anyone ride more than that in a day (excluding people whose primary mode of transport is one)? Regardless, you would do it with the plugs in the bed with the Lightning, which includes a 240v and is just as fast as using the charge port. I'd rather have a 240v plug in the Rivian bed than V2V charging (if I were forced to choose).

 

[PastyPilgrim]

Well, a couple things. It's extremely unlikely that you'll run out of juice, roughly the same probability you'll run out of gas because it's within your control.

As far as Rivian goes, they will have a service to juice you up in the event that happens, which will be much more reliable than hoping that an EV with V2V charging capabilities happens to drive by and decides to stop. But again, I think this will rarely ever happen, except for the people that routinely run out of gas due to their own mistakes.

Id think it would be easier to run out of juice than gas given that chargers aren't anywhere near as common as gas stations, sometimes chargers are out-of-service, broken, or being used/squatted/etc., EVs are more susceptible to environmental factors like cold, and EVs tend to have a shorter range than gas (e.g. R1T can't go as far as an F150). I mean, "range anxiety" exists for EVs for a reason but not gas, right?

 

[evtrail]

Even ICE people have gas issue on road trips because MPG is different depending on the driving, trail, off-road conditions. Now they usually bring a few gal of gas for those situation. What is the eV solution to that? Also, ICE vehicles don’t have that 20-80% battery problem, one can deplete a tank to the last galon, or top up, it won’t damage the car. Being new to the EV world those are the question Im afraid of, because I’d love it to be as usable as they say it is off-road.

 

[intimidator]

Id think it would be easier to run out of juice than gas given that chargers aren't anywhere near as common as gas stations, sometimes chargers are out-of-service, broken, or being used/squatted/etc., EVs are more susceptible to environmental factors like cold, and EVs tend to have a shorter range than gas (e.g. R1T can't go as far as an F150). I mean, "range anxiety" exists for EVs for a reason but not gas, right?

Vehicle to Vehicle is a cool feature.

The Powering Your House ability is another cool feature.

So is the Ford Frunk (I hope down the road Rivian thinks about doing the same)

IMO the Rivian and F150 are two different segments / buyers, so they both can have cool features.

 

[Dbeglor]

Id think it would be easier to run out of juice than gas given that chargers aren't anywhere near as common as gas stations, sometimes chargers are out-of-service, broken, or being used/squatted/etc., EVs are more susceptible to environmental factors like cold, and EVs tend to have a shorter range than gas (e.g. R1T can't go as far as an F150). I mean, "range anxiety" exists for EVs for a reason but not gas, right?

They aren't as common, but you also know where they are and where they aren't. While specific chargers may be out of service, I think it's extremely rare that an entire station is out of service. I've personally never witnessed this, nor have I ever had to wait to use one. The only one I've ever used has a viable backup plan close enough nearby if that were to ever happen.

For me, range anxiety only lasted for about a week or two after purchase, when you say "OMG what if I get stranded?" This is coming from someone who owns one of the lowest mileage EVs in existence (200mi; outside of the toys like i3, etc.). We use it for all of our driving needs and leave our three row ICE SUV (which would be more spacious on longer trips) to rot in the driveway and only use it when we both need a vehicle. Range anxiety is primarily talked about by prospective EV owners, not actual ones. I'd love to see data on it, but I would be surprised if the incidence of running out of electricity is higher than that of running out of gas.

I think to sum up, if I thought the need for V2V charging would be a real possibility, I'd seriously re-evaluate the entire prospect of an EV. Despite my experience with availability/reliability, if I would depend on a single station to be available and operable on a regular basis, with no alternative station nearby as a backup plan, I'd seriously reconsider an EV (that's just not sound risk management).

To put another way, if a new ICE car came out, but it only had a 1 gallon gas tank, but was advertised as being able to carry a jerry can and accept gas being poured into it from someone else's, would that be a good solution? No, you'd say this doesn't meet my needs and look for something else. If they advertised the same for a vehicle with a 20 gallon tank, you'd say, "so what, why do I care about that?".

 

[JeremyP]

Currently available V2V is called a tow strap and regen. Find someone to tow charge you a few miles and you should be able to get to the next charger.

 

[jjswan33]

Vehicle to Vehicle is a cool feature.

The Powering Your House ability is another cool feature.

So is the Ford Frunk (I hope down the road Rivian thinks about doing the same)

IMO the Rivian and F150 are two different segments / buyers, so they both can have cool features.

I agree with your premise but with that said. Having the V2H and 240v outlets would have a lot of function to Rivian owners. V2H is useful for a number or reasons, don't see why that would be segment specific. And the 240V outlet would be useful for camper trailers etc. that fits well with the Rivian segment IMO. The Frunk is more of a design choice but I get the utility argument of that too

 

[PastyPilgrim]

Currently available V2V is called a tow strap and regen. Find someone to tow charge you a few miles and you should be able to get to the next charger.

Rivian has reversed coursed on allowing tow charging, presumably because it's dangerous. Plus, even if Rivian enabled it or you were doing it outside of any official support for it, you'd still need to have spent 2k on the hooks and be somewhere where it could be done safely.

 

[Max]

Aside from emergency uses, an older or less expensive low range EV can go out to boonies with a higher range EV with more flexibility on where to stop. Or a 300 mile Rivian can go off road with a 400 mile Rivian on 350 mile round trip.

 

[RideAlong]

This is actually quite a huge deal + being able to power a home ?

 

[Dbeglor]

This is actually quite a huge deal + being able to power a home ?

V2H/G/L great. V2V is not really useful in the real world once you think about it. Plus, even if you ever did need it, you need someone ELSE to have that capability, not you, and you need them to be where you are exactly when you need it, and then be willing to sit with you for 1-3 hours while it charges at AC speeds. It's much faster and convenient to just call a charge service, like the one that is included with Rivian.

 

[astonius]

V2H/G/L great. V2V is not really useful in the real world once you think about it. Plus, even if you ever did need it, you need someone ELSE to have that capability, not you, and you need them to be where you are exactly when you need it, and then be willing to sit with you for 1-3 hours while it charges at AC speeds. It's much faster and convenient to just call a charge service, like the one that is included with Rivian.

Kind of contradictory to say (paraphrasing) "it's not a useful feature" and "you'd need others to have it to be viable." The more vehicles that add this as a feature the more viable it becomes as a possible solution if you run out of juice. Emergency charge services are great, but what's wrong with having other options? Especially for an off-roader, I suspect most charge services wouldn't be able to get everywhere an R1 can get. The more options the better.

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