F-150 Lightning announced pricing pushing buyers to Rivian

[kizamybute']

Here's the Electric Silverado (debuted a day early/found on Insta).

If that's what the Silverado is going to look like, SOLD! I'll take one. Given, it's probably a year or two away, so I'll still buy the Rivian either way, assuming I can get one next (oops, now, this year), then consider selling it once the GMC is available and assuming it truly is a 400 mile range battery. I love the look, at least from the photo above.

I think Ford is shooting themselves in the foot with a short-minded approach. Currently, primarily due to chip shortages, there is an over-demand for vehicles across the board. Being that there hasn't been a widely available EV truck produced in large numbers yet, many are eager. However, there are already signs that times are shifting.

Ford appears to have paid attention the "current" demand and chose to jack up the prices, notably by forcing you to pay $9,500 for an option package on the XLT just to get the Extended Range Battery. This brings a modestly equipped XLT to $73,000, well over $20,000 higher than an ICE. For those that still need to be convinced that an EV is a viable alternative, the $20,000 price hike isn't going to do it. Will take a long time to recapture that much just through gas and maintenance savings. For those that could care less about saving the planet, they'll stick with their more reasonably priced ICE alternatives.

I give GM credit. Whether they do this with the Silverado is to be determined, but using the Corvette as an example, they could have very easily jacked up the price on the C8. Demand has been through the roof, yet they still priced it VERY reasonably based on what it costs them to build, with a reasonable profit. Rather than pricing it higher just because they could in the short term. If they take the same approach with the EV Silverado, it will undercut Ford's pricing by a large margin for a comparably equipped truck.

Ford is going to upset a lot of loyal Ford owners with these prices. Furthermore, many that aren't Ford customers will simply pass on it all together. Ford will still sell a bunch of them over the next year because the demand is there. BUT, it's changing. Hasn't completely caught up yet, but shortages are becoming less and less and supply is catching up with demand. Just look at Tesla. A few months ago, some cars reflected delivery dates a year out. Now, most models can be had in less than 6 months with some in less than 3 months. Tesla is catching up. Ford says they're doubling production. If they do build 160,000 EV trucks in the next year, by 2023, there will EV trucks sitting on the lots looking for buyers. As is typical, incentives and rebates will be attached and prices will come down quickly.

Interest rates are going to rise, reducing affordability that currently exists thanks to near nothing interest rates.

And, probably most important as it relates to the Ford, it's a dinosaur already. It's based on antiquated frame on body architecture. Simply, a conversion of an ICE to an EV. Ford has already stated in a couple of years, an all new EV version will be available. As such, the existing trucks are going to plummet in value. Especially when considering that Rivian and now GMC are offering trucks that were designed from the ground up to be EV's.

Add in that many dealers are going to be jacking prices with dealer mark-ups and I feel bad for anyone that pays close to $100,000 grand for one of the F-150's. They'll be lucky to get $40,000 for it in 2024. Ford may have effectively ended dealer hopes of these huge mark-ups by jacking up the MSRP's already. I would hope that no halfway logical and intelligent human beings will pay over $100,000 grand for one those trucks.

Ford is very short-minded and is going to pay the price in the long run by turning off people with their short-term greedy decisions today. Those decisions will be remembered when times turn and Ford goes begging for sales. In the short term, they'll enjoy some small gains. But, I think most consumers are smarter than they are giving them credit for. At these prices, likely more than half of the 200,000 reservations will cancel. With the Rivian being a far superior vehicle from the ground up, aside from those that absolutely need a larger "work truck", they'll choose a Rivian over the antique F-150. Or, most will wait for the far superior, ground up build that GM will be offering. If the Silverado is even close in pricing to the current F-150, it's absolutely worth waiting for for those that need a larger work truck. The Platinum version, with a couple of options, is going to be pushing $100,000!!! The existing Hummer, at very near the same price point, is FAR more vehicle than the Ford Platinum F-150 Lighting is. Ford is still using spring suspension, versus Rivian and GM going with fully adjustable air suspension. For will have little to no off-road capability. It just lacks so many of the features that the Hummer offers.

Sad to see. I was rooting for Ford to be successful with the F-150 EV. But, this will bite them in the rear long term.

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[ja_kub_sz]

@kizamybute' a lot of good points made, agree with pretty much everything you said.

Let's see what other information comes out on the Silverado.

 

[GOFAST]

So

@kizamybute' a lot of good points made, agree with pretty much everything you said.

Let's see what other information comes out on the Silverado.

Agree that many good points were made. I think interest rates rising is an underestimated factor that will likely start pricing people out after a few rate increases. The Fed has already signaled they plan to raise rates in 22.

 

[thrill]

...
I think Ford is shooting themselves in the foot with a short-minded approach. Currently, primarily due to chip shortages, there is an over-demand for vehicles across the board. Being that there hasn't been a widely available EV truck produced in large numbers yet, many are eager. However, there are already signs that times are shifting.

Ford appears to have paid attention the "current" demand and chose to jack up the prices, notably by forcing you to pay $9,500 for an option package on the XLT just to get the Extended Range Battery. This brings a modestly equipped XLT to $73,000, well over $20,000 higher than an ICE. For those that still need to be convinced that an EV is a viable alternative, the $20,000 price hike isn't going to do it. Will take a long time to recapture that much just through gas and maintenance savings. For those that could care less about saving the planet, they'll stick with their more reasonably priced ICE alternatives.
...

You know what would happen if Ford priced their premium vehicles 20 grand less? ... Dealers would be marking them up 25 grand more.

Maximum price is determined by the willingness of the market. Ford is smart to capture what they can right up front, especially *knowing* EV demand is going to keep growing for the next 20 years because it will be legislated to do so.

 

[dpc166]

I was initially leaning toward the F150 mainly because it was pretty well known and the additional space under the hood was great. I'm not a Ford fan because the interiors have always been too standard and cheap looking. I didn't really think about the R1T at first, but when I started to see videos and read through the specs, I really enjoy the R1T more than the F150, even if the F150 was cheaper. The R1T is even smaller than the F150 and I don't need a truck that big.

Having the adjustable air suspension to lower it at highway speeds, the gear box, a really well done interior, the fact that with the tail gate down, you can still fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood all speaks to me. Quad motor all wheel drive is a bonus and will be great for any weather. I could turn the R1T into an RV instead of actually buying an RV or a tow trailer and save on the added insurance. I wish I could get smaller wheels than 20" because it would help lessen the unsprung weight, but I guess I'll just have to deal.

In the end, this is a truck I could have for the next 20 years and can then justify the price to be equal to owning 2 cars over the same period (not to mention saving money on hotels, etc. with the camping setup).

 

[HTownB]

Don't forget about dealer markup! This is going to happen a lot! Once people see what the final price out the door is, they are not going to buy it.

A lot of people will still buy it, especially since most alternatives will have a wait list. They will just be pissed off about it.

 

[Forager]

A lot of good points being brought up here, but I think there is a surprising amount of nose-turning happening with the base Lightning. The Pro is an incredible value; it comes with many features that are a significant upgrade for many truck owners regardless of what it is missing compared to the R1T or higher trim Lightnings.

The only issue with the Pro is that it will not be produced en masse for 18-24 months.

After seeing the pricing for an ER XLT, I was convinced that Rivian is the more sensible buy (even if the can and bed are significantly smaller than I’d like). Still, if given an option to buy a Pro when orders are sent out in the coming weeks, I’d probably jump at the chance. I’ll take my savings and buy a less sensible, and more polished, second vehicle for the wife (BEC XC90, R1S, etc.)

 

[kizamybute']

You know what would happen if Ford priced their premium vehicles 20 grand less? ... Dealers would be marking them up 25 grand more.

Maximum price is determined by the willingness of the market. Ford is smart to capture what they can right up front, especially *knowing* EV demand is going to keep growing for the next 20 years because it will be legislated to do so.

Absolutely agree. I think what most will be unhappy about is the forced option packages that jack up the price. It took away any mid-range options for people. Get the stripped $40,000 version, or spend nearly twice that to get an XLT with an extended range battery. Chevy just said their work truck @ $40,000 will INCLUDE 400 miles in range. Ford, $40,000 gets you only 230 miles in range. If you want to get up to 300 miles, still 100 miles less, you have to pony up another $32,000 to do so. That's where they're going to lose a lot of customers. Many would have gladly paid in the high $50's for an XLT extended range. Forcing it to $72,000 with the forced option package, is just too much.

What Ford has going for it is a 1 1/2 year head start. But, the Chevy will be the far superior EV Truck, designed from the ground up to be one, rather than Ford's conversion of an existing F-150.

 

[Sgt Beavis]

I'm curious to see if I'm in the first wave of Lightning orders. I'm not ordering, just curious. Then I'm going to cancel my reservation. I'm cancelling my Cybertruck reservation as well. Frankly, on paper, the Silverado is better than either of those vehicles. My Silverado EV reservation is a hedge in case something goes wrong with Rivian.

I kinda need a truck and my wife is trying to get me to buy something now. That is the one thing that would keep me from buying an EV at all.

 

[Smithery]

The promise of $40,000 BEV Trucks by both Ford and Tesla seems disingenuous. Not only are they unlikely to be produced in any large numbers, but the needed add-ons and upgrades to come anywhere close to what the Rivian is, or can do, is quite sizable.

For the individual consumer, you're 100% right.

But let's be honest - Ford and Chevy are targeting their $40k variant at one market alone: Fleets.

And they might sell tons there.

Tesla's $40k goal is to generate buzz and then cancel due to lack of interest.

 

[camaroz1985]

Absolutely agree. I think what most will be unhappy about is the forced option packages that jack up the price. It took away any mid-range options for people. Get the stripped $40,000 version, or spend nearly twice that to get an XLT with an extended range battery. Chevy just said their work truck @ $40,000 will INCLUDE 400 miles in range. Ford, $40,000 gets you only 230 miles in range. If you want to get up to 300 miles, still 100 miles less, you have to pony up another $32,000 to do so. That's where they're going to lose a lot of customers. Many would have gladly paid in the high $50's for an XLT extended range. Forcing it to $72,000 with the forced option package, is just too much.

What Ford has going for it is a 1 1/2 year head start. But, the Chevy will be the far superior EV Truck, designed from the ground up to be one, rather than Ford's conversion of an existing F-150.

To clarify they said the WT is going to be available with 400 mile range, but not for $40,000. That will be the larger battery pack, not the standard.

 

[Dbeglor]

Absolutely agree. I think what most will be unhappy about is the forced option packages that jack up the price. It took away any mid-range options for people. Get the stripped $40,000 version, or spend nearly twice that to get an XLT with an extended range battery. Chevy just said their work truck @ $40,000 will INCLUDE 400 miles in range. Ford, $40,000 gets you only 230 miles in range.

I'd take a moment to consider that the COGS for just the 400mi battery is $27,000 at current cost of $135/kwh. Adding a 15% profit margin means that the market price is over $31,000 before you add anything else. So, with the remaining $9,000 of market price, that equates to a COGS of about $7,800 that they can spend building the rest of the truck.

That's going to be the most spartan vehicle ever made.

 

[kizamybute']

To clarify they said the WT is going to be available with 400 mile range, but not for $40,000. That will be the larger battery pack, not the standard.

The articles could be wrong, but I specifically read that $40,000 is including the 400 mile range battery and that a lower priced version will become available at some point, with a lower capacity battery. We know how good "journalists" are these days!! LOL

 

[LoneStar]

Perhaps a taboo topic, but I can't be the only person "on eggshells" wondering when Rivian will announce 2022 price adjustments. They cannot ignore the competition setting the bar for nicely equipped EV trucks over $70k that rapidly escalate to six-figures.

I sure hope my mid-year 2022 R1T L.E. still costs me what it says today... but I'm a bit anxious about it rising up in the +$10k range.

 

[camaroz1985]

Perhaps a taboo topic, but I can't be the only person "on eggshells" wondering when Rivian will announce 2022 price adjustments. They cannot ignore the competition setting the bar for nicely equipped EV trucks over $70k that rapidly escalate to six-figures.

I sure hope my mid-year 2022 R1T L.E. still costs me what it says today... but I'm a bit anxious about it rising up in the +$10k range.

That is one of the things that could cause me to punt to the Silverado as a backup. I'm not saying if it goes up at all, but if it is more that $5k or so, I would really have to look long and hard at what I really want. Up until now there was absolutely no question in my mind. I won't cancel either pre-order until I am ready to take delivery though because as the Lightning shows us, things aren't always as they seem.

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