EV versus ICE Cost of Ownership calculator

[Hmp10]

In terms of the environmental impact of charging your EV, a lot depends on where you are. The use of coal (one of the dirtiest fuels) to generate electricity is declining in the U.S., although there have recently been some increases in coal use in the developing world.

In Florida, where I live, our largest power company closed its last coal-fired plant last year. Right now all our electrical power is being generated by nuclear plants, natural gas-fired plants, and solar farms. In fact, Florida Power & Light is expanding its solar generation at the second-fastest rate in the nation and is on track to produce 30% of its power by solar farms by 2030.

Recently, the air quality in Naples, FL (my home) was rated among the highest in the nation.

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[JeffOutWest]

Nate was nice enough to send me his calculator. I used it a few times. I also pulled Edmund's TCO and compared a 2013 LX570 to the Rivian - which happens to be what I'm thinking about. I took Tesla as the basis for the Rivian, and modified a few things. I made taxes -2500 for the first year, because there is a 7500 federal and 2500 tax rebate.

 

[fastwheels]

You can't do a meaningful total cost of ownership analysis when comparing an $85,000 Rivian against a $48,000 Tacoma when the largest component of ownership is depreciation. Plug in any $85,000 ICE truck that has comparable amenities and performance (or at least closer performance to the Rivian than the Tacoma) and see how the numbers flip to the Rivian's advantage...

 

[JeffOutWest]

You can't do a meaningful total cost of ownership analysis when comparing an $85,000 Rivian against a $48,000 Tacoma when the largest component of ownership is depreciation. Plug in any $85,000 ICE truck that has comparable amenities and performance (or at least closer performance to the Rivian than the Tacoma) and see how the numbers flip to the Rivian's advantage...

I agree. The point of the exercise for me, frankly, wasn't to do a fair comparison at a given price point, but an actual comparison for vehicles I was considering.. so I agree, it's entirely pointless to anyone else. I did actually derive some benefit from the comparison however, because I didn't realize how relatively dominant depreciation was.

I will say - it might actually still have some semblance of relevance, because it highlights not just the price gap, but also that the Tacoma has absolutely stellar resale. If I were even looking at a similarly priced Chevy or whatnot, the numbers might work out much closer to the balance of the Rivian's favor.. that would be interesting.

But since you brought up a more valid comparison - if I happened to be considering a top end half ton, say an $80k Ram or F-150, I would jump on the Rivian in a heartbeat in comparison, and I suspect the depreciation will be much less on the Rivian. And 0-60 in 3 seconds probably never gets old...

 

[Nuclearn8]

You can't do a meaningful total cost of ownership analysis when comparing an $85,000 Rivian against a $48,000 Tacoma when the largest component of ownership is depreciation. Plug in any $85,000 ICE truck that has comparable amenities and performance (or at least closer performance to the Rivian than the Tacoma) and see how the numbers flip to the Rivian's advantage...

I need to compare the Rivian to another midsize pickup truck since that's what I'm in the market for... have any suggested comparisons that are better than the Tacoma? It's been leading the segmet for decades.

 

[JeffOutWest]

I need to compare the Rivian to another midsize pickup truck since that's what I'm in the market for... have any suggested comparisons that are better than the Tacoma? It's been leading the segmet for decades.

Pulled a couple quick comparisons. There was no data available for the Colorado ZR2 or Bison, which I would have liked to have seen. I pulled the Z71 instead, the most expensive I could find was almost 40k cash price.

 

[JeffOutWest]

quick note - I think it's all about whether the depreciation offsets the operating cost savings. If you think the Rivian will resell go from 80k down to 40k resale over 5 years, it is at 70k cost of ownership over five years - higher than most cars I am considering, by about 10k or 15k. If it resells for 50k or 55k, it becomes price competitive, and is in my view a superior product - so at that level of depreciation it would make more financial sense. Or if you are going to keep it forever, that may become a moot point and then it probably comes down to cash price versus operating cost.

 

[skyote]

Is it worth $2-3K a year for the performance & awesomeness that Rivian will provide? My answer is yes...

 

[JeffOutWest]

Is it worth $2-3K a year for the performance & awesomeness that Rivian will provide? My answer is yes...

good lord when you put it like that, I agree it's a foregone conclusion

 

[BigE]

So I edited the suggested google sheet and did a quick comparison between a R1T and a Tacoma.... and it's not pretty, even making assumptions in the R1T's favor...

I need to seriously rethink the practicality of this purchase before committing to my pre-order.

I'm hoping someone can point out some errors in my comparison.... (jpg attached since excel cannot be attached)

I'm struggling with the next vehicle choice also. I have a Rivian R1T Max Pack reservation, I also have a Tesla Cybertruck Tri-Motor (early reservation) so they may actually come out in a similar time frame. This vehicle will be for my wife/family truck, and we typically keep vehicles for 8-10 years. She really likes the Honda Ridgeline and we have had Honda's forever and love them. What I love about both the R1T & Cybertruck is they are both extremely capable, say towing (we have a camper), but also fast like a sports car, and I like the idea of going electric. Pre R1T & Cybertruck, I was thinking something more like a Ford F-150 Limited or Platinum, which is actually right in line price-wise with either of these (expensive). As of today, we have a camper that is only ~2,500 lbs, but we are thinking in the future of going to something that will weigh more like max 8,000 lbs which rule out the Ridgeline or say a Tacoma.

 

[Nuclearn8]

I'm struggling with the next vehicle choice also. I have a Rivian R1T Max Pack reservation, I also have a Tesla Cybertruck Tri-Motor (early reservation) so they may actually come out in a similar time frame. This vehicle will be for my wife/family truck, and we typically keep vehicles for 8-10 years. She really likes the Honda Ridgeline and we have had Honda's forever and love them. What I love about both the R1T & Cybertruck is they are both extremely capable, say towing (we have a camper), but also fast like a sports car, and I like the idea of going electric. Pre R1T & Cybertruck, I was thinking something more like a Ford F-150 Limited or Platinum, which is actually right in line price-wise with either of these (expensive). As of today, we have a camper that is only ~2,500 lbs, but we are thinking in the future of going to something that will weigh more like max 8,000 lbs which rule out the Ridgeline or say a Tacoma.

I made the decision to cancel my R1T order a while ago. Financially wasnt worth it for a lot of reasons... especially with the pandemic, we don't need another vehicle since we both now work from home full time. Regardless of that, unless an EV gets below 50k we will not consider it. It needs to make some financial sense... I'm hopeful the R2R will be in the $40,000-50,000 range. Until then, we'll keep driving ICE vehicles and donating $500 (500 trees a year to plant) annually and sleep just fine regarding the environment. Either vehicle uses rubber tires which apparently kills salmon in the PNW.
Also towing with an EV is something I wouldnt even consider... range is considerably lower when towing and the infastructure isnt in place for frequent charging yet across the country everywhere like gas stations...

 

[ajdelange]

Does anyone know a good online comparison calculator that lets the user edit the inputs to see where the break-even point is during ownership, if there is one financially?

I used to build elaborate models for complex systems for a living so this should be a snap. Just tell me what you are comparing and what answer you want and I'll get back to you.

 

[C.R. Rivian]

I made the decision to cancel my R1T order a while ago. Financially wasnt worth it for a lot of reasons... especially with the pandemic, we don't need another vehicle since we both now work from home full time. Regardless of that, unless an EV gets below 50k we will not consider it. It needs to make some financial sense... I'm hopeful the R2R will be in the $40,000-50,000 range. Until then, we'll keep driving ICE vehicles and donating $500 (500 trees a year to plant) annually and sleep just fine regarding the environment. Either vehicle uses rubber tires which apparently kills salmon in the PNW.
Also towing with an EV is something I wouldnt even consider... range is considerably lower when towing and the infastructure isnt in place for frequent charging yet across the country everywhere like gas stations...

I am on the list for an R1T, but also have a Kia Niro EV. With state and federal tax incentives, my cost was in the $25K range. If you are looking for something that is not a truck, there are some pretty decent EV's (my range is around 250) out there that don't break the bank.

 

[ElectricTrucking]

I made the decision to cancel my R1T order a while ago. Financially wasnt worth it for a lot of reasons... especially with the pandemic, we don't need another vehicle since we both now work from home full time. Regardless of that, unless an EV gets below 50k we will not consider it. It needs to make some financial sense... I'm hopeful the R2R will be in the $40,000-50,000 range. Until then, we'll keep driving ICE vehicles and donating $500 (500 trees a year to plant) annually and sleep just fine regarding the environment. Either vehicle uses rubber tires which apparently kills salmon in the PNW.
Also towing with an EV is something I wouldnt even consider... range is considerably lower when towing and the infastructure isnt in place for frequent charging yet across the country everywhere like gas stations...

Your next move should be to unsubscribe to this forum.

 

[jjwolf120]

Your next move should be to unsubscribe to this forum.

I do not concur. If you are still interested in Rivian and their vehicles, there isn't any reason to unsubscribe.

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