EV versus ICE Cost of Ownership calculator

[Nuclearn8]

interesting item to ponder... if you plan on driving 12,500 miles a year.... one could plant approximately 14 trees and the net impact on the environment from an CO2 emission standpoint would be zero.
If you plant 14/15 tress a year, technically you're doing more for the "climate crisis" than buying a Rivian alone... $1 plants 1 tree... https://www.nationalforests.org/get-involved/tree-planting-programs so you can still feel good about yourself from a sustainability standpoint, if you decide to go the ICE vehicle route.

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[jimcgov3]

interesting item to ponder... if you plan on driving 12,500 miles a year.... one could plant approximately 14 trees and the net impact on the environment from an CO2 emission standpoint would be zero.
If you plant 14/15 tress a year, technically you're doing more for the "climate crisis" than buying a Rivian alone... $1 plants 1 tree... https://www.nationalforests.org/get-involved/tree-planting-programs so you can still feel good about yourself from a sustainability standpoint, if you decide to go the ICE vehicle route.

Not the response I was expecting to my reply, but cool...

 

[JeffOutWest]

Yeah I calculated how to offset CO2 if that is the goal a while back, and it is trivially easy/cheap, from a quick back of the envelop calculation.. whether that is valid or not, I'm not sure.

Nate was nice enough to send me his calculator.. my takeaway so far is that I'm actually surprised at how small the difference is, but a big unknown is resale value.

I'm going to have to sit and think about it some weekend once the reviews for Rivian are out, I suspect it will be a hard decision.

 

[Nuclearn8]

rough calc

 

[JeffOutWest]

And trees, at least by some metrics, are very cheap to plant.

 

[EVian]

Trees don’t solve the problem of local pollution from particulates etc.

 

[Lmirafuente]

To the viewers of this post, also check you State Tax incentives. If you live in a State that has EV Tax incentive you may find the gap being a little smaller. In this Forum you can go to the State of California section (https://www.rivianforums.com/thread...it-increase-from-july-2020-december-2030.241/ ), I posted the current Tax Incentive for CA of $2,500, but could change with the new Bill currently up for approvals that will increase that to $7,500 for purchases after July of 2020---"if it passes".

Quick numbers of the spreadsheet above...that gets the Rivian cost down to $47,280...which shrinks the gap to $5,495. With repairs and maintenance cost on ICE being higher (my guess/opinion only), it gets close to being a wash for California residents---again if that CA Tax credit gets approved.

CA also has a TAX credit for residential power storage (that almost pays for the battery backup), meaning I can get my solar panels to keep a charge on the battery backup during the day (like the Tesla Power Wall) to charge my R1T/R1S overnight getting the cost down to zero for charging the EV for daily use.

Hope this adds value for some of the participants in this forum..

 

[JeffOutWest]

Trees don’t solve the problem of local pollution from particulates etc.

I agree, and I'm not advocating for any policy, I don't have enough knowledge to make real recommendations.

 

[JeffOutWest]

To the viewers of this post, also check you State Tax incentives. If you live in a State that has EV Tax incentive you may find the gap being a little smaller. In this Forum you can go to the State of California section (https://www.rivianforums.com/thread...it-increase-from-july-2020-december-2030.241/ ), I posted the current Tax Incentive for CA of $2,500, but could change with the new Bill currently up for approvals that will increase that to $7,500 for purchases after July of 2020---"if it passes".

Quick numbers of the spreadsheet above...that gets the Rivian cost down to $47,280...which shrinks the gap to $5,495. With repairs and maintenance cost on ICE being higher (my guess/opinion only), it gets close to being a wash for California residents---again if that CA Tax credit gets approved.

CA also has a TAX credit for residential power storage (that almost pays for the battery backup), meaning I can get my solar panels to keep a charge on the battery backup during the day (like the Tesla Power Wall) to charge my R1T/R1S overnight getting the cost down to zero for charging the EV for daily use.

Hope this adds value for some of the participants in this forum..

That definitely adds value from my perspective - if it's a relatively small delta, like $6k, I am definitely getting a Rivian. Rivian being a new manufacturer, etc., doesn't bother me in the slightest, I have faith that they are working things out systematically, and developing a really compelling, exciting product. I'll be massaging the numbers, to make it favorable

 

[Lmirafuente]

I also think they have the right personnel at Rivian. I met (Charles) VP of Engineering and Integration from McClaren and many others from various auto manufactures. The energy and vibe on focusing to making it right the first time out of the gate is visible. Also, if you look at the amount of moving parts in a ICE being over 250-350 parts versus an electric motor having about 25 moving parts, the risks are lower in my opinion.

 

[Hmp10]

Also I think insurance will probably be much more expensive on the Rivian . . . .

Maybe not. One of the big components of premiums is loss by theft, and EVs have the lowest theft rates of any types of vehicles. (Teslas are stolen at 1/10 the rate of similarly-priced ICE cars.) The two hottest targets for thieves are ICE performance cars and pickups, so a Tacoma pickup is much more likely to be stolen than a Rivian.

Also, Rivian claims they are going for the top collision safety ratings. If they succeed, that will also affect premiums as the projected losses due to injury will be lower.

I was surprised by how low the insurance rates were when I bought my 2015 Tesla Model S P90D, which cost $128,000. The rates would have been much higher for an ICE vehicle of that price.

Finally, the electronics of most EVs make theft very difficult. I'm pretty sure the Rivian will be in constant communication with a network anytime it is on the road or being charged, and I doubt if that connection can be overridden while still keeping the car operable. For instance, EVs cannot be charged at public chargers without identifying themselves to the network. Even when charged at home, the newer EVs still communicate their charging status to the network, which is why you can track state of charge via your cell phone.

 

[Lmirafuente]

Maybe not. One of the big components of premiums is loss by theft, and EVs have the lowest theft rates of any types of vehicles. (Teslas are stolen at 1/10 the rate of similarly-priced ICE cars.) The two hottest targets for thieves are ICE performance cars and pickups, so a Tacoma pickup is much more likely to be stolen than a Rivian.

Also, Rivian claims they are going for the top collision safety ratings. If they succeed, that will also affect premiums as the projected losses due to injury will be lower.

I was surprised by how low the insurance rates were when I bought my 2015 Tesla Model S P90D, which cost $128,000. The rates would have been much higher for an ICE vehicle of that price.

Finally, the electronics of most EVs make theft very difficult. I'm pretty sure the Rivian will be in constant communication with a network anytime it is on the road or being charged, and I doubt if that connection can be overridden while still keeping the car operable. For instance, EVs cannot be charged at public chargers without identifying themselves to the network. Even when charged at home, the newer EVs still communicate their charging status to the network, which is why you can track state of charge via your cell phone.

I would agree with all you have posted. Also most EV’s are garaged and charged indoors further deterring theft.

 

[Nuclearn8]

Trees don’t solve the problem of local pollution from particulates etc.

Educate me on local pollution from particulates please...

 

[EVian]

Educate me on local pollution from particulates please...

LMGTFY ;-)

 

[Nuclearn8]

got it... thanks.

I've often wandered how environmentally friendly it is to manufacture an EV... for example mining any rare earth elements for all the electronics... that mining equipment and operations generally aren't "environmentally friendly". the electrons to charge the vehicles have to come from somewhere, which generally have some sort of emissions unless it's a nuclear power plant (which has it's own long term storage issues with spend fuel).... I guess everything is just a balance and if you want one, buy one, right?

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