EV Home Charging Recommendations

[alwaysdarkchocolate]

Hi folks,

Clearly I am not great at pulling previously discussed threads on this; therefore to benefit my and other new folks posting this query to this incredibly helpful forum.

Looking for recommendations regarding installation of outlet +/- charger for a soon to be R1S owner who is new to the EV space (in California).

1. Any downside to just getting a compatible outlet?
2. What home charger would be recommended? We don’t have other EVs. Any benefit to getting a Tesla Universal Charger or a Rivian Charger? Any other charger that you folks have found more reliable than the two above? Given that the car is kinda expensive, would not want to penny pinch on charging!
3. Any recommendations for electricians servicing the SF Bay Area who deal with this professionally?
Thanks!

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[Nano]

Get Tesla Universal charger so it will charge pretty much any EV now or in the future.

 

[smunro622]

I have 2 chargers Tesla universal charger and ChargePoint. Not sure what options exist in CA for charging, in MI I have a second meter for EV charging. M-F 11pm to 9 am and Fri nite 11pm to Monday 9 am .12/kw. Charge allows me to add from drop down menus to add electric co and the EV rate plan and say charge at the times. If out of these times I manually need to open app and start charging by hitting “charge now” Tesla only had 5 states listed with this option/feature. Otherwise to me both work the same both have a nice UI, ChargePoint tells me how much I spend on home charging in the app is nice also, unsure on Tesla this feature is lacking for MI electric co’s. If know know which electric co happy to open the app and do screen shots to see if Utility rate plans are supported if the are go Tesla

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Universal Wall Connector hard wired is my recommendation. It's a future proof choice.

https://www.electrifiedoutdoors.com/ev-charging

 

[BCondrey]

You want to hardwire the EVSE if you can. Safer, faster, cheaper install. If you think more EVs are in your future, get the Tesla Universal Connector. I just installed one it is a solid unit. Research your utility rate plans and make sure the combo of R1S and EVSE will allow you to take advantage of the times/rates.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

While the universal charger is a good choice, you can pick any one and just use an adapter later.

 

[MidnightRivian]

Emporia for $359 after forum discount is a great value.

Feel free to use the forum discount code “RIV” to save $$$ on A2Z EV website.



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[PunkRockDoc]

check to see if your power company has any rebates. I went with Chargepoint because it was one of their selected brands for a rebate (Tesla was not an option). I was a little worried about future proofing, but then found out that the charging cable on the chargepoint is able to be swapped, so you can buy a different cable in the future if needed.

 

[Eeyore]

check to see if your power company has any rebates. I went with Chargepoint because it was one of their selected brands for a rebate (Tesla was not an option). I was a little worried about future proofing, but then found out that the charging cable on the chargepoint is able to be swapped, so you can buy a different cable in the future if needed.

This is the right answer. Your electric utility will have a short list of choices. Pick one that will get you a rebate. They might also have recommended electric shops for quotes.

 

[Mathme]

Level 2 chargers can be found from about $350 up to $2,000ish yet they all do basically the same thing -- with the increase in price adding more bells and whistles to the chargers. You can either go hardwired or into a 14-50 plug and there's advantages and disadvantages to both - hardwired has less chance for heat transfer issues in the extra plug, but is also harder to change out if a charges dies on you. Regardless, you do not want to use your travel charger and plug-unplug it from the wall outlet as those outlets aren't designed for that kind of repeated use.

My recommendation is to check with your local power company and see if they have any EV home install programs going on. We installed a charger a while back at a house (that's since been sold) up in the Lake Tahoe area and the local electric company (Liberty) was offering rebates of up to $1500 toward the purchase and install of a home BEV charger. The catch was they only had 4 chargers in their program they'd reimburse you for. At the end of the day, the total charger + install costs came to about $1700 -- or $200 out of pocket.

If/when our current Wallbox charger dies, I'll likely switch over to an Enphase charger which runs about $1100. My motivation there is that we have an Enphase solar + battery back-up system at the house, and their integrated charger will use the excess solar generated from our system to charge the EV. This would essentially allow us to charge at 5.5-6.5 kWh per hour for free during the day...and having PG&E as a power company would likely pay for itself in a year or two.

 

[SwampNut]

Just use the mobile charger on an outlet. For most people there's just no downside, and the expense of a permanent EVSE offers zero value. This is what I had for many years, and the only reason I have a permanent one now is that I was given a Rivian wall charger free. Otherwise I'd still be using the portable.

 

[Kaiju]

As mentioned above, power company rebates will drive selection. Most of them have to be smart-capable in some fashion for scheduled off-peak charging.

However if all options are open to you, a charger is largely just a glorified switch and sometimes a lot of what you pay for is for 'smart' features and not necessarily a reflection of the quality of the electrical guts or workmanship inside. If you're like me and are indifferent to whether or not it has wifi and phone integration (because the vehicle itself can still control all charging scheduling, charging rates and the like), I'd generally point you towards the dumbest solution that's well-regarded. I use a grizzl-e mini for 9.6 kw out of a nema 14-50 plug in my garage. It's possible to hardwire it too.

If you go the smart road for the wifi, make sure that it still operates without an internet connection. There are a few that, very bizzarrely, won't work if they can't phone home.

While I can't disagree that eliminating the extra connection of a plug eliminates a possible problem, if you're in an area that requires a local disconnect by code if the charger breaker is too far away, it may wind up being a six of one, half dozen of the other thing. The problems are that cheap or poorly wired nema 14-50 plugs can get loose in the terminals or where the plug blades make contact and arc, melting the plug. Residential disconnects generally aren't intended for that sort of current draw either and there are stories of some meant for air conditioners being installed and melting. There are right and wrong ways to do both.

If you choose to go the plug route, there are some specific recommendations for best installation. Use a Hubbell HBL9450A or a Bryant 9450 FR (which is as far as I can tell is exactly the same thing, also made by Hubbell) and make the circuit for 50A assuming you'll get 80% for continuous draw on a 40A charger. You'll notice these particular 14-50 plugs are marketed now as being rated for EV chargers and tend to be much more heavily built than what you'd find at a hardware store.

 

[RivianRunner]

Another vote for hard-wired. NEMA 14-50 plugs are just one more potential problem and require GFCI breakers that can cause problems with Mobile Connectors (because they already have a GFCI in-built). Two GFCIs is not a good thing. Hardwire is good.

 

[Skyedog]

+1 on a ChargePoint 50A hardwired home charger. I already had it for my previous EV, so opted not to purchase the Rivian home charger. With the ChargePoint I can schedule charging times and I have not had any issues using it to charge my R1S Gen2.

There are other posts from individuals who have experienced a drop in charging draw after one hour. It’s rather odd that most cite the drop at 60min. Some state arcing, other that their Rivian displays warm plug.

This weekend I did my first road trip and was in a situation where I needed to use the portable charger that comes with the vehicle. As most know it comes with only two plug types - 5-15 120V 12A (max 1.3kW) or 14-50 240V 32A (max 7.6kW). In reality, the max kW can be derated up 80% based on several factors including cable gauge used to the plug and safety.

In my case, I found out that the only plug available was a NEMA 6-50P (common high-power equipment - welder, EV charger, power tools) and the Rivian portable comes with a NEMA 14-50R (more popular, moderate to high voltage and current - EV charger, RV hookup, dryer, range). Another key difference is the number and configuration of the prongs and grounding pin.

So I’m stuck with incorrect plug type. Solution is to either go find a local L2 charging station in rural Washington, plug into a 120V outlet or knock on my neighbors door and ask them how they charge his Rivian R1T (and Tesla). They offered me their charger that has the appropriate plug . I did a little research before plugging it in and felt good enough to try it out. It started charging at 6.4kW…for the first hour, then dropped to 4.7kW for the next couple of hours. The cable was never warm but the interior car console said it dropped charging level due to warm cable. Unplugging for a bit, checking the pins, and charging again seemed to resolve the issue for a while, but similar issue reoccurred.

I did some research and found it a common occurrence. So trying to see if it’s the charger, outlet, vehicle, or a combination. Most point to a charger issue and it’s unclear if it’s consistent with 3rd party, plug type, phase of the moon??

My next step is going to go back to either a commercial L2 charger or charge at home on my ChargePoint. I also sent a related service ticket to Rivian to see if any of this background helps in their investigations.

For reference,
https://wattlogic.com/blog/nema-6-50-vs-14-50/

 

[woodcan]

Very old thread but just to add my 2 cents from personal experience having got a quote from an electrician and thought I had decided to go with a NEMA plug charger for flexibility.

I found out that the NEMA plug chargers require 50 amps per spec (60 amp breaker). They are not supposed to connect a smaller amp breaker to a NEMA plug. You could very well be in a situation like me where the home builder cheaped out and your main breaker cannot support an additional 60 amps without a $2-3K main electrical panel upgrade assuming your electric meter itself can supply enough power as well. So, to avoid dishing out an additional unexpected $3k for home ev install I am opting for a hardwire connection that will run off of a 30amp breaker and sure it will charger at 24amp but that's better than using a 120v plug for charging.

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