EV Effeciency and Carbon Footprint

[Aroohoo]

https://qz.com/2154558/big-electric-trucks-and-suvs-are-the-new-gas-guzzlers/

Article on EV effeciency that basically sums up what we already knew, even the most inefficient EVs are better than their ICE equivalent. Author states the obvious that it is a step in the right direction (e.g. EV hummer vs ICE hummer) but the better environmental solutions is to get the most effecient EV (and get your power from clean sources).

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[Gator42]

The other criticism of studies like this is they only take the into account the operating emissions and efficiencies into account (disclosure: I’m one of those who criticizes any study that only conpares vehicle operations) Mining battery minerals is a heavily carbon intensive process and when other studies try to account for that the winners aren’t as obvious….

 

[Aroohoo]

The other criticism of studies like this is they only take the into account the operating emissions and efficiencies into account (disclosure: I’m one of those who criticizes any study that only conpares vehicle operations) Mining battery minerals is a heavily carbon intensive process and when other studies try to account for that the winners aren’t as obvious….

Agreed.
The more holistic studies, that are actually peer reviewed and not a 'news' article, show that from a life cycle emissions standpoint you only get positive when you source your electricity from renewables (solar, hydro, etc).
I remember one from way back in the day that looked at the Prius and added up not only the cost of mining the battery material but the vast supply chain impacts of sending raw materials and sub components back and forth between continents before they finally made it to Japan for final assembly.

 

[jbssfelix]

https://qz.com/2154558/big-electric-trucks-and-suvs-are-the-new-gas-guzzlers/

Article on EV effeciency that basically sums up what we already knew, even the most inefficient EVs are better than their ICE equivalent. Author states the obvious that it is a step in the right direction (e.g. EV hummer vs ICE hummer) but the better environmental solutions is to get the most effecient EV (and get your power from clean sources).

I mean, the best environmental solution is ditch driving altogether as much as possible. But obviously, much of the US is not built to support such a car-free or car-lite lifestyle, so EVs are the next best things we as individuals can do.

 

[lostpacket]

The more holistic studies, that are actually peer reviewed and not a 'news' article, show that from a life cycle emissions standpoint you only get positive when you source your electricity from renewables (solar, hydro, etc).

EVs beat out ICE even in full lifecycle emission but cleaner sources of energy get them there sooner.

Have a look at
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=bt2
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...ower-life-cycle-emissions-new-study-confirms/
https://www.reuters.com/business/au...lectric-vehicles-vs-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/

Also if folks are going to bring up the damage of mining, it's important to also take into account the damage from drilling and fracking including oil spills and the scale of mines vs the vast oil fields.

Finally it's important to remember EV batteries are up to 92% recyclable including 100% of the metals (and they are so valuable no one will be throwing them away)

 

[zipzag]

Much of mining is electrified. The problem is the source of electricity is often diesel generators. The environmental goal in mining is no different than fueling vehicles: Electrify and clean-up generation.

This process is best done in parallel. There is no benefit in doing it sequentially i.e. green energy first and then EV.

I doubt many people are buying Rivian as an ideal green choice. Rivian is unimpressively heavy and inefficient for an EV specific build. The Lightning is a lot more impressive, and it's not an EV optimized platform. I expect the Cybertruck to be close to Lightning.

 

[Zoidz]

I know I'm preaching to the choir -

Over the long term, it's *inevitable* that ICE vehicles go away. Whether it's due to pollution concerns or running out of fossil fuels, it's gonna happen. People can work for it or against it, but it's inevitable.

It's also inevitable due to natural progress, not unlike evolving from mechanical computers to tube computers to System On A Chip. "I wish my daily driver was a Model T" said no one ever in the past 80 years.

Why did cars gain favor? Pollution. There are many resources online that say horse crap was a huge problem in populated areas, and cars solved it. We are at the exact same point right now ICE vs. EV, and it takes time and baby steps to get to where we inevitably will go.

So I have no illusions that buying a Rivian is going to save the world. It's not. But I am helping the world by contributing to the baby steps today, long term vehicle evolution and installing a 15kw solar panel system to offset dino electricity. And I'm getting one kick ass vehicle. What's not to like?

 

[Dark-Fx]

Finally it's important to remember EV batteries are up to 92% recyclable including 100% of the metals (and they are so valuable no one will be throwing them away)

I'd like to see a study done that figures out when we can basically stop mining for the metals involved because we are able to just keep recycling them in perpetuity.

 

[nc10]

The Lightning is a lot more impressive, and it's not an EV optimized platform

How so? Look eerily similar to me, mileage, weight, battery options, etc.

 

[Scott]

Every time one of these threads pop up I drop in this link:



It is the best, accessible to anyone, discussion on the topic I have found. If you are willing to read the sources and academic papers, you can do better, but this is a really good overview of cradle to grave emissions impact

 

[zipzag]

How so? Look eerily similar to me, mileage, weight, battery options, etc.

 

[nc10]

The Lightning is a lot more impressive, and it's not an EV optimized platform.

Not getting your point on the Lightning vs R1T from this pic, sry. Why is the Lightning a lot more impressive?

 

[zipzag]

R1T is a mid size pickup. Lightning is a full size pickup. While the photo above exaggerates the size differences, the pictures that show the Rivian in the foreground and about the same size as an F150 are also inaccurate.

My point is that the Lighting is a size class up from the R1T and has a larger front cross section. Yet the Lightning is lighter and has about the same MPGe as the R1T.

Rivian as a new EV design is heavy for its size. This not only means higher operating costs for owner, but less profitability for Rivian. Hopefully much of what seems to be extra weight was necessary due to suspension and therefor driven by owner benefit

 

[messinator]

Aways an interesting discussion. One reason that really pushes me to go electric here in Seattle is that our grid is almost entirely renewable (90%+). Going skiing (which requires cold weather) and actively heating the environment via ICEs is pretty counerproductive.

 

[emoore]

Aways an interesting discussion. One reason that really pushes me to go electric here in Seattle is that our grid is almost entirely renewable (90%+). Going skiing (which requires cold weather) and actively heating the environment via ICEs is pretty counerproductive.

Hopefully in the next 10 years most of the US will be too.

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