Shzeph

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As......presumably fascinating/informative (I’d have no idea) as all this techno-jargon is, I think the VAST majority of buyers probably only care about how fast the vehicle will charge off a regular ol’ Level 2 home charger, since anyone coming from a Not A Tesla PHEV/BEV will likely have one of those.

That said, as this is an enthusiast forum, the results on here are probably skewed in favour of endless paragraphs of....whatever was going on in this thread.

So carry on, people I can’t understand!
 
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@ajdelange @electruck @DucRider

Guys, check out this video, particularly from ~13-18 mins about the cells, module, & pack architecture. He clearly addresses your questions.

For everyone else, this is a very informational video about all things Hummer EV:

 

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@ajdelange @electruck @DucRider

Guys, check out this video, particularly from ~13-18 mins about the cells, module, & pack architecture. He clearly addresses your questions.
Ha... scroll back up to post #117 in this thread. It was DucRider's link to this very video that prompted discussion of the simlarity to Rivian's patent application, questions about the accuracy of the info and other assorted rambles. If not explicitly, I believe we at least determined the guy has his facts straight about the Hummer.
 

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RobBot

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I believe the same was true of rivian for a while too while preorders were open.
 

azbill

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As......presumably fascinating/informative (I’d have no idea) as all this techno-jargon is, I think the VAST majority of buyers probably only care about how fast the vehicle will charge off a regular ol’ Level 2 home charger, since anyone coming from a Not A Tesla PHEV/BEV will likely have one of those.
Being an EV owner who charges my car overnight in my garage, the speed of the L2 charger is not really a concern at all. Also for local driving it is rare to run the car down to a low level of charge on a normal day.

The concern is, and you will learn this when taking a long trip, is how long do you have to stop for a charge, and how frequently. Electrify America has a goal of putting charging stations no more than 120 miles apart on the freeways. For my Bolt, which only charges at 56KW below 50% SoC, that takes me at least 32 minutes to add those miles. The Bolt gets 4.15 mi/kwh (EPA).

Based on the Rivian numbers for range and battery size, if the charging rate is 160KW, then it will take at least 21 minutes to add 120 miles of range. At 300KW it will take only 11 minutes. The Rivian gets 2.2 mi/kwh (estimated).
 

PoorPilot

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What exactly do you find disturbing about that? Legacy auto manufacturers have been displaying concept cars at auto shows for decades. This is nothing new. What is new is the idea of pre-orders but there is nothing remotely disturbing about that.
Concept cars, yes, however this is being marketed and sold as a production vehicle. Concept cars are just that- no intent, or very little intent on actually building them. I didn't and wouldn't consider Rivian a concept vehicle, thus the reason why I put down 2 deposits a day after both models were revealed. GMC has a lot of money and experience behind them, so I'm sure they have the ability to meet their aggressive goals, but not having a working model yet strikes me as a tad bit Nikola-ish.

I hope the Hummer EV actually gets produced as it will bring more options to the market so every manufacturer will have to up their game to stay competitive.
 

ajdelange

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I think the VAST majority of buyers probably only care about how fast the vehicle will charge off a regular ol’ Level 2 home charger...
The vast majority don't care a whit about how long it takes to charge at home as they simply plug in when they get home and leave the following day with a "full" charge. Why would they care if it took 3 hours or 8 as they are eating dinner, watching TV, walking the dog, interacting with the family or asleep during that time?

What most care about, and even obsess about, is the amount of time spent charging on long trips. You will, I think, find, after a little experience, that it isn't much different from your current fueling experience with ICE except that it does take a little longer.

Before you get your Rivian commit to memory that 1% is 4 miles and 1.8 kW. If you plan a trip which involves driving 180 mi to a charger, 220 to the next and then 300 miles to your final stop you will use 180/4 = 45%, 220/4 = 55% and 300/4 = 75% of the battery for those three stages. Prudence says you should probably have 40 miles extra range on board beyond what you need should you have to find a charger other than the one you originally intended to use. That says you will need 40/4 = 10% extra for safety.

As they are doing other things prior to leaving on a trip many people charge to 90 or 95% at home prior to leaving on a road trip - you do not want to charge this high for normal driving. If you do this you will arrive at your first stop with about 95 - 45 = 50% left in your battery. For your next stage you will want to have 55 + 10 = 65% and so need only to add 15% at the first charger. That's 15*1.8 = 30 - 3 = 18 + 9 = 27 kWh. With a 150 kW charger you will need 27/150 =9/50 = 18/100 = .18 hr = 11 min. Note that I have broken down each calculation in such a way that it can be done without calculator or pencil and paper. With a 350 kW charger the time needed would be 27/350 ~ 0.08 hr or 5 minutes. Given such short times most guys would charge up to 70 - 75% for the sake of having a little more margin on board and because if the family is doing a biological here everyone won't probably be back to the car in 5 - 11 minutes.

Etc. I know there are people who have trouble with even this level of "tech". For them the vehicle will have lots of displays to do all the above and more e.g. present it to you in spiffy graphs. Even so, it's too much for some. My wife says that if something happened to me she would immediately sell the Tesla because she has no idea what all those screens mean.
 
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electruck

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Concept cars, yes, however this is being marketed and sold as a production vehicle. Concept cars are just that- no intent, or very little intent on actually building them. I didn't and wouldn't consider Rivian a concept vehicle, thus the reason why I put down 2 deposits a day after both models were revealed. GMC has a lot of money and experience behind them, so I'm sure they have the ability to meet their aggressive goals, but not having a working model yet strikes me as a tad bit Nikola-ish.

I hope the Hummer EV actually gets produced as it will bring more options to the market so every manufacturer will have to up their game to stay competitive.
You are correct about the "intent" connotations of a "concept" vehicle thus I should have chosen my words more carefully. Replace "concept" with "show" and I still stand behind my statement. "Show" cars come in many flavors from empty shells with no functional bits all the way to functional prototypes and modified versions of production vehicles.

Rivian has explicitly referred to the vehicles you saw at the reveal and that were touring the country pre-covid as "show" cars. While they are capable of driving under their own power, I suspect you might be a little "disturbed" if you realized just how unfinished those vehicles really are.

As you state, this ain't GM's first rodeo. They have been delivering ICE vehicles to consumers for over 100 years and hybrid and electric vehicles for decades. I'm no fan of GM but I have zero doubt about their ability to deliver the Hummer, Lyriq, Cruise Origin and other vehicles all based off the same Ultium battery/drive platform. By their own admission the development timeline is more aggressive than normal but I don't find anything "disturbing" about their announcement of intent with nothing more than a "show" car at this point.
 

azbill

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The vast majority don't care a whit about how long it takes to charge at home as they simply plug in when they get home and leave the following day with a "full" charge. Why would they care if it took 3 hours or 8 as they are eating dinner, watching TV, walking the dog, interacting with the family or asleep during that time?

What most care about, and even obsess about, is the amount of time spent charging on long trips. You will, I think, find, after a little experience, that it isn't much different from your current fueling experience with ICE except that it does take a little longer.

Before you get your Rivian commit to memory that 1% is 4 miles and 1.8 kW. If you plan a trip which involves driving 180 mi to a charger, 220 to the next and then 300 miles to your final stop you will use 180/4 = 45%, 220/4 = 55% and 300/4 = 75% of the battery for those three stages. Prudence says you should probably have 40 miles extra range on board beyond what you need should you have to find a charger other than the one you originally intended to use. That says you will need 40/4 = 10% extra for safety.

As they are doing other things prior to leaving on a trip many people charge to 90 or 95% at home prior to leaving on a road trip - you do not want to charge this high for normal driving. If you do this you will arrive at your first stop with about 95 - 45 = 50% left in your battery. For your next stage you will want to have 55 + 10 = 65% and so need only to add 15% at the first charger. That's 15*1.8 = 30 - 3 = 18 + 9 = 27 kWh. With a 150 kW charger you will need 27/150 =9/50 = 18/100 = .18 hr = 11 min. Note that I have broken down each calculation in such a way that it can be done without calculator or pencil and paper. With a 350 kW charger the time needed would be 27/350 ~ 0.08 hr or 5 minutes. Given such short times most guys would charge up to 70 - 75% for the sake of having a little more margin on board and because if the family is doing a biological here everyone won't probably be back to the car in 5 - 11 minutes.

Etc. I know there are people who have trouble with even this level of "tech". For them the vehicle will have lots of displays to do all the above and more e.g. present it to you in spiffy graphs. Even so, it's too much for some. My wife says that if something happened to me she would immediately sell the Tesla because she has no idea what all those screens mean.
Not sure if you saw my post#144, but I tried to simplify it buy using a 120 mile leg between chargers, that is the goal EA has set for providing charging sites. So in simple terms the Rivian would need 21 minutes (short lunch) to add that range at 160KW, versus 11 minutes (bio break) at 300KW. You would then arrive at the next charging stop with the same buffer you started with at the previous stop. You can always scale up the times if you want to skip the next charger and go further for a single leg.
 

ajdelange

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I did. I am trying to show how simple and flexible it is if people reckon in percent.
 

Shzeph

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Yeah, I can’t really be bothered to do any level of math whatsoever when it comes to roadtrips and the like. Assuming Rivian’s GPS has a feature like Tesla’s where it can find and plot routes based on charger locations, my grand strategy for long trips is:

Step 1) Have a full charge before I leave home

Step 2) When the car says it needs more juice, go to a charger, plug it in, then get lunch/use bathroom/futz about on my phone while it charges (depending on how long the recharge takes)

Step 3) Rinse, Wash, Repeat
 

ajdelange

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i find trying to upstage the computer passes the time on the road and helps keep me awake but it certainly isn't required. You will be fine in doing what you plan to do except in places where charging is sparse. Trips you do frequently you will have no problems. You will be well advised, however, to look into the charging situation before heading into unfamiliar territory.

If Rivian doesn't have trip planning features equivalent to Tesla's I'll eat my ephemeris. Even in that case you can use ABRP on your phone.
 

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