Elon Musk says that Lucid and Rivian are tracking toward bankruptcy

[jjwolf120]

The Munroe teardown of the Instrument Panel (IP) had me concerned.

Why, they had very little to say that was critical?

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[Dark-Fx]

I hear you. They outnumber TESLA, and they are going to continue to outnumber TESLA over time - but they are just really 'ing painful to use, confusing, all over the place on charging speed, and broken too much of the time.

Biden has the right idea by forcing any manufacturers who want subsidies from the 500,000 charger initiative to require that you do NOT need an app, the machine will take a credit card, and the experience is like pumping gas. Swipe/Charge.

My experience that was the biggest pain in the ass on was with an EVGO station that I tried to use my credit card at. After a while I figured out that it wasn't working because they didn't take AMEX. Just getting a "Declined" message is completely useless. I'd rather have the apps and have the companies work on interoperability. Unlocking my phone and swiping it over a reader after plugging in is a decent experience in comparison.

 

[LaunchGreen]

My experience that was the biggest pain in the ass on was with an EVGO station that I tried to use my credit card at. After a while I figured out that it wasn't working because they didn't take AMEX. Just getting a "Declined" message is completely useless. I'd rather have the apps and have the companies work on interoperability. Unlocking my phone and swiping it over a reader after plugging in is a decent experience in comparison.

Yup, this won’t be the first time the government mandates outdated technology. Surprised they don’t require them to all accept cash.

 

[Breakers]

This isnt Atlis Motors who has to find investors through instagram
or Fisker who is depending on the cell phone manufacturer to build their vehicles

Rivian is following roughly a similar business plan as Tesla, use higher price point vehicles to fund the lower cost mass produced ones. It was the same with tesla until the model 3 platform was up and running.


If the R2 platform misses then I could understand the bankruptcy concerns.
The R2 is the whole shebang, Im guessing some sort of concept should be released in late 2022
fingers cross it is as big of a hit as the R1t, then the company will take off and he will be eating his words.

 

[SASSquatch]

My experience that was the biggest pain in the ass on was with an EVGO station that I tried to use my credit card at. After a while I figured out that it wasn't working because they didn't take AMEX. Just getting a "Declined" message is completely useless. I'd rather have the apps and have the companies work on interoperability. Unlocking my phone and swiping it over a reader after plugging in is a decent experience in comparison.

I haven't had issues with the app only because I've just had continued charging faults and have to keep moving to different chargers to find one that will work. Obviously, where you are in the country and what your network looks like matters. I've had perfect experiences and nightmare experiences.

I was at Electrify America Headquarters in Reston one time trying to use their chargers in the rain to no avail and it took 3 engineers (who came down from their offices) to get me charging. They had to use a special card they had - I didn't pay. I felt special that day but it has to be easier.

If we are going to convince consumers who have been living with the convenience of gas to switch to EVs the charging has to be ubiquitous (like gas stations) and easy (like gas stations).

 

[SANZC02]

Yes Rivian will keep raising prices, these are the flagship vehicles. They will slowly get to the same price as the Model S and X and will still sell. Look at the starting price of the X, currently around 115k, 38k higher than my LE R1S configuration so there is still plenty of room for increases.

The R2 is the mass market lower priced vehicle. Rivian is using the same model Tesla did, start off with high end vehicles to get the reputation then release the commodity versions. The one additional thing that Rivian also has is the EDV on the commercial side. There is still plenty of potential for this platform even beyond last mile deliveries. I can see markets in the trades as work trucks as well as companies looking to by shells as camper conversions.

I still think Rivian is in a good place now considering the complicated world challenges. I’ve actually taken advantage of the low stock prices to lower my average price to $39.

It is way to early to talk about their demise, that is a conversation for mid 2024 once they have more than 8 quarters behind them, we see how factory 2 is progressing and we see how much the sales numbers are chipping away at their burn rate for cash on hand.

 

[SASSquatch]

Why, they had very little to say that was critical?

Later in my quote I say that they were concerned that they didn't understand how RIVIAN is making money on the R1T because of the quality and cost of components.

That is concerning from a shareholder perspective but reassuring from a buyer perspective.

 

[jjwolf120]

RIVIAN is making money on the R1T because of the quality and cost of components.

Yes, but they also still think it costs 74k.

 

[SASSquatch]

I could care less what the world's most famous $hitposter thinks about almost anything. Rivian still has some tough years in front of them to really prove they "made it", and they have definitely made a bunch of unforced errors along the way, but I really feel they tried their best to build a company that can last. They are not vaporware like Nikola, Canoo, or Fisker. They also have products that people actually want. Rivian has the IL factory and a pretty sweet deal for that GA factory as well. As long as they keep putting vehicles out and improving the service experience they will be ok.

+1 for $hitposter

You hit the nail on the head with "improving the service experience." My fear is that they end up like TESLA on service. That would be the worst possible situation.

My other fear is that we are headed into a recession or at the very least an economic slowdown which will curtail big ticket spending.

One way RIVIAN can keep the coffers full is to try and get as much market share of the EDV market so that they can have that as a stable revenue stream moving forward. If they do that, they may slow down on production rates for the R1T/R1S which isn't going to make us happy but maybe if it translates to long term health of RIVIAN it may be worth the short term pain.

 

[SASSquatch]

Yes, but they also still think it costs 74k.

For tens of thousands of us, it does.

 

[MNLightning]

I have to smile at the anti Elon comments, I guess he hurt some feelings. The hard truth is the numbers at Rivian are beyond terrible and he is just telling it like it is. The cash burn will come more into focus with the economic downturn. Like it or not Rivian is in a fight for it's existence. But perhaps a merger or purchase would be more likely than extinction. The news media turned on him shortly after the new progressive administration came into power. DFL'ers/Union/Media are tough to fight against, especially without Twitter . And some people (not referring to posters this thread) aren't even sure why they don't like him. I have some acquaintances that are like sheep and regurgitate the talking points of the talking heads on the boob tube. Please remember Mary Barra and GM are the biggest and best BEV manufactures in the land.

With the media machine grinding against him he will become even less popular over time. The Media needs to vilify someone and he is in their sights. I'm just waiting for our Electric bills to double or more with the Democrats throttling energy production.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

I don't understand all the "How are they making money on this" coverage of the vehicle. I think it's pretty clear they don't expect to for a good long time (same as Tesla) and they will eat unthinkable losses to gain precious market position, hopefully turning it around in time.

What does have me concerned is how poorly certain aspects of the truck seem to have been executed. The passive entry system not working with the fob is ridiculous. An entire team of people approved the world's worst wireless charger design. The power tonneau cover appears nicely positioned to be the R1T's finicky, overly-clever gullwing door. And too little information has been given regarding when or if owners can expect Driver+ to achieve parity with Autopilot from several years ago (no pre-map).

 

[SASSquatch]

Yup, this won’t be the first time the government mandates outdated technology. Surprised they don’t require them to all accept cash.

I don't think the standard requires that you can't have an app based system, only that the machine must be able to also accept POS via CC swipe to initiate a charge.

I don't disagree that the more technologically savvy approach isn't convenient but we are talking about the masses here who aren't necessarily technologically savvy.

I suspect EV drivers probably have a higher comfort level with technology than the average gas vehicle owner because we have self-selected for this experience.

 

[Davethadog]

If he wants rivian to succeed he should quit using a proprietary plug and open the supercharger network.

I have never once been upset that I dont have a twitter.

 

[Olsonsolar]

I think the infotainment and lack of physical controls has the potential to kill Rivian unless something changes. There are a lot of people that don't like change, and if you want to succeed long-term, you can't just go after the tech-savvy people as that's really limiting your market. There are a lot of us that just want a no-nonsense vehicle that simply works without all the gadgetry.

2nd That

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