Electrify America charging issues - More RAN stations because I don't want to deal with this nonsense.

kanundrum

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RJ has stated over 200 kW sustained, and it is impossible to infer voltage from kW. 150 kW @ 400V is indistinguishable from 150 kW @ 450V, 800V or 920V.

Fair enough, I am going by what Rivian is saying on their support website

Level 3: Fast-charging — the quickest charge available. At the Rivian Adventure Network, you can charge up to 140 miles in 20 minutes.

I guess they didn't specify what RAN would be and if the car can handle more or not than what RAN can provide. I am really looking for Porsche Taycan Levels of Charging. Even though RJ said it, I will probably make that my determining factor for the vehicle as a Whole as it is key to me because I plan on taking a LOT of road trips.





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Mysta

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Fair enough, I am going by what Rivian is saying on their support website

Level 3: Fast-charging — the quickest charge available. At the Rivian Adventure Network, you can charge up to 140 miles in 20 minutes.

I guess they didn't specify what RAN would be and if the car can handle more or not than what RAN can provide. I am really looking for Porsche Taycan Levels of Charging. Even though RJ said it, I will probably make that my determining factor for the vehicle as a Whole as it is key to me because I plan on taking a LOT of road trips.
Agreed, 140 in 20 is good, but if it falls off after that you're looking at like 1.5 hours to get to full, but if that's just remote chargers(pretty acceptable) no problem.
 

DB-EV

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Mjhirsch78 said:
7. The number of chargers that don’t work properly and the fact we need to track which ones actually worked recently is a sign they still have work to do.
Rather than a comment here I have a question: Is the present state of the EA system such that you would have concerns with respect to a road trip in your Rivian?


****

So, perhaps the only thing that could give me pause on my LE R1s (currently forest green but may switch to white): charging speeds and how it holds stated range.

We are Metro NY. I love to ski, and next year we are planning to be in the Southern Adirondack park from around Christmas to March. Door to door about 240 miles, almost all of that highway on I87. It maps to 4 hours.

1. On number of chargers, I am not that concerned because of the EVolveNY program - the state is taking the Volkswagen diesel gate money and placing 50 high speed charging (300+kw) in the next few years. These things are actually getting built - you can google it and see a map of locations. There is already one in Schroon Lake in NY, and there will be a handful around Albany, which is my normal stopping point if I stop on this trip.

2. Battery charge in the cold / range. This is an issue for me. While I tend to drive safe but fast on 87 (less than pullover speed), I would probably cap it at ~70 to help range.

It is certainly a luxurious problem, but if we are heading up Friday nights, I want to be able to do the drive without a charging stop in the likely case that the family falls asleep. Coming down, I am sure we would be stopping because everyone would be awake on Sunday afternoons.

I am fine topping up the charge before I leave to 90/95 or even 100 pc for a short period time, as the info I have come across is that the battery wear comes into play when you charge up and leave it that way for a period time. In this case, I would time the charge to fill right before leaving from a L2 home charger.

I called Rivian about the cold weather issue, to ask if there would be a 25% hit on range in cold weather. They gave me a stock answer and mentioned their BMS, including tech on warming the battery. I didn't read too much into the answer.

I have time to decide, but there is where 400 mi range at launch would have helped me. (I understand the rationale with starting with 300mi range given battery supply constraint).
 

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Rather than a comment here I have a question: Is the present state of the EA system such that you would have concerns with respect to a road trip in your Rivian?

We are Metro NY. I love to ski, and next year we are planning to be in the Southern Adirondack park from around Christmas to March. Door to door about 240 miles, almost all of that highway on I87. It maps to 4 hours.
DB-EV you should check out A Better Route Planner if you haven't yet. This will help show your options, also a fun tool with many options to play with.
To answer your question, concerned yes... alarmed I don't think so. If your like me, A BEV NOOB, we have a lot to learn and everything matters, Temperature, charge speed & curve, vehicle speed and load etc... My Thoughts are you will be stopping to charge in both Albany and Schroon Lake and in both directions. Also you will likely need to plug in overnight, assuming an overnight trip, so you don't spend all your charge on preconditioning battery and cabin temp.
I plan on making similar trips from Central NY.
 

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DB-EV you should check out A Better Route Planner if you haven't yet. This will help show your options, also a fun tool with many options to play with.
To answer your question, concerned yes... alarmed I don't think so. If your like me, A BEV NOOB, we have a lot to learn and everything matters, Temperature, charge speed & curve, vehicle speed and load etc... My Thoughts are you will be stopping to charge in both Albany and Schroon Lake and in both directions. Also you will likely need to plug in overnight, assuming an overnight trip, so you don't spend all your charge on preconditioning battery and cabin temp.
I plan on making similar trips from Central NY.
Thanks, T! Yes - ABRP is great. If you haven't come across it, Chargeway app is cool because of the filtering by charger level (a few of the EVolve stations are on it, as they are live).

And yes, an EV Newbie. I have a ten year old Honda CRV awd with a two inch lift (120,000 miles), which has driven past many a stuck F150 and Jeep on the beach ;) and a 2014 Impreza with like 18,000 miles.

I would bet there will be an even more convenient charger than Schroon, but I could see planning dinner there on Saturday night to pick up charge. It looks like there will be a charger right near Glen Falls, which is about 1 hour from my final destination.

If helpful: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...x&ll=43.44220882915262,-73.77199585106602&z=9 - that is the map for EVolve stations. It looks like there will be good options for you in CNY.
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2. Battery charge in the cold / range. This is an issue for me. While I tend to drive safe but fast on 87 (less than pullover speed), I would probably cap it at ~70 to help range.

It is certainly a luxurious problem, but if we are heading up Friday nights, I want to be able to do the drive without a charging stop in the likely case that the family falls asleep. Coming down, I am sure we would be stopping because everyone would be awake on Sunday afternoons.

I am fine topping up the charge before I leave to 90/95 or even 100 pc for a short period time, as the info I have come across is that the battery wear comes into play when you charge up and leave it that way for a period time. In this case, I would time the charge to fill right before leaving from a L2 home charger.
240 round trip in cold weather with 70 mph speeds is pretty likely a "no go" with the LE large pack (300 mile range). It will almost certainly require a stop on the way home. No one knows the actual effect of cold weather and high speeds on the Rivians range, and won't until we get reports from owners. But a 40% drop from the EPA range is not unheard of under the conditions you describe. Maybe more on the first leg since you are likely gaining altitude on the way to the ski area (you'll get some of that back on the way down.
Just had this conversation with a friend that went skiing in his Bolt. Arrived at the ski area with 90 miles range remaining (out of 259). Got to the bottom of the mountain on the return trip showing 138 mile range remaining. Got home with 70 miles showing.

AFAIK, only Tesla recommends not charging to 100% and cautions that you will damage your battery by doing so on a regular basis. They have less of an upper buffer built in and a full charge is closer to an actual 100% charge than other manufacturers. This does allow them higher EPA range ratings and greater range for occasional use. It won't hurt to only charge completely just before a long trip, but I think it likely that Rivian will not have that recommendation/requirement in the owners manual. They have touted their "smart" battery management that adapts to your usage (with no detail at all), and if it actually makes it to the production vehicles it will be interesting to see what it actually does.
 

Whataboykie!

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https://apple.news/AU6nHW-lpSIydYQqeRIK1BA


"..... First: Unlike with Tesla’s vast Supercharger network, only a tiny fraction of FordPass’ purported 35,000 plugs support DC fast charging. The vast majority remain 240-volt Level 2 chargers -- ideal for overnight home charging, but nearly useless in my book for public fill-ups, unless you’re actually spending six or eight hours on interstate bathroom breaks or shopping at Whole Foods. Secondly, where many Tesla owners continue to receive a year of Supercharging (and previously, “unlimited” free charging) as a perk and incentive to buy, Ford is offering only 250 kilowatts of free DC juice, enough for three to five fill-ups.

I would have been thrilled to pay anything for a fast top-off when I pulled the Mustang Mach-E Premium AWD — with 60 miles of remaining range — into a Target store in Clifton, N.J., on a miserable, rainy night in December. It’s one of nearly a dozen Electrify America (EA) stations in New Jersey, as the Volkswagen-owned EA expands a DC network whose chargers range from 50 kilowatts to a mighty 350 kilowatts. I drove miles out of my way just to check out one of EA’s 150-kilowatt machines, eager to see if the ‘Stang SUV (with an official 270-mile range) could really add 47 miles of range in just 10 minutes on the plug. Ford claims a Mach-E in rear-drive, 300-mile-range form will juice even faster, adding 61 miles in 10 minutes.

The reality at this Target was so wildly off-target that I might as well have gone inside to load up shopping carts with housewares and snacks. Pulling up, I was met with one of the most impressive-looking (non-Tesla) charging arrays I’ve seen in America: Six tall, Electrify America chargers stood sentry, each brandishing two plug-in arms, for a total of 12 DC outlets. (One was out of commission, so make that 10 outlets). Their user-friendly touchscreens flashed ads for Ewan MacGregor’s latest motorcycling adventure. I stuck the charger’s heavy, bulky cord into the Mach-E’s fender-mounted port. The station instantly recognized a “Ford owner” with FordPass, and the charge initiated automatically, without me having to futz with a thing. My phone’s FordPass app began tracking the charge. This is going to be great, I thought: Child’s play, just like charging a Tesla.

If only. Working on my laptop in the driver’s seat, I looked up after 10 minutes, and realized (according to both the app and the Mach-E’s driver’s display) that I’d only added nine miles of range to its 88 kWh, 376-cell lithium-ion battery — nowhere near the 47 miles in 10 minutes that Ford is touting via these 150-kilowatt, Supercharger-style stations.

Hopping from the driver’s seat, I saw the charger screen insisting electricity was being delivered at 74.2 kilowatts. That was only about half the 150-kilowatt rate touted on the machine’s placard, and I would have happily taken it. The actual trickle of juice going into the Ford was 20 kilowatts at best; a fraction of the expected rate, and only about twice as fast as a piddling, 11-kilowatt Level 2 home charger. Ambient temps were in the 40s, and there are always some transmission losses from electrical resistance and heat (typically on the order of 10 to 20 percent) but this was ridiculous.

I plugged into another outlet. Then I moved the Mach-E to another charger further down the row. Next, I called EA’s customer service, where a rep named Justine — working out of Auburn Hills, Mich., the former site of VW’s North American HQ — couldn’t have been more helpful. Justine even rebooted one of the chargers to see if we could pick up the glacial pace. But no dice, fuzzy or otherwise. Justine couldn’t offer any real explanation on what was up, instead promising to get the tech department on the case.

My reporter’s curiosity piqued, I eventually plugged the Mach-E into five of the 10 working outlets, hopping back-and-forth from the driver’s seat into a steady rain, and becoming steadily more frustrated. No matter which plug I tried, the alleged “fast charger” delivered the same weak stream, adding about one mile of range for every minute on the plug. The convenience-factored price of 43 cents per kWh was stiff as well, more than three times the national-average rate of 13.2 cents per kWh for home electricity. If I had hung around long enough, adding 220 miles to the Ford’s “tank” would have cost about $30, more than the price of unleaded gasoline in an SUV that slurps at 20 mpg.

Ultimately, I cut my losses after more than 90 minutes (including time wasted switching plugs), five outlets and a pathetic 76 miles of added range, barely enough to drive for an hour on the highway. I pulled out of Target with the Ford’s battery boosted by 40 percent, showing 136 miles of range — plenty for my trip home to Brooklyn, but again, nowhere near Ford’s claim of a charge from 10% to 80% in 45 minutes.

Of course, one driver’s experience at one bank of chargers isn’t an indictment of the entire network that Ford has partnered with, rather than going the Tesla route and building one of their own. But while I’ve had good experiences at both ChargePoint and EA chargers, I’ve encountered a distressing number of their chargers that are out of service, unable to initiate a charge, or underperforming in charging rates. In contrast, though I’m hardly a regular user, I’ve never plugged into a Tesla Supercharger that didn’t work, first time, every time.

As I wrote in my review, the Mustang Mach-E is one impressive EV, one that stands tall against the Tesla Model Y in most competitive measures. But Tesla’s foresight and investment in its own proprietary network remains a key competitive advantage, right up there with its edge in electric efficiency and range.

While I was standing in the rain at Target, twiddling my thumbs, I had ample time to mull that over — and realize that Ford and the rest still have some catching up to do.
Great review, sorry for your misfortune in buying the Ford. Do you still have your Tesla? Also, only a few ICE SUV's slurp petrol at 20 MPG. Mostly 4 cylinder models. Most are worse than that.
 

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Great review, sorry for your misfortune in buying the Ford. Do you still have your Tesla? Also, only a few ICE SUV's slurp petrol at 20 MPG. Mostly 4 cylinder models. Most are worse than that.
I don't think that's true. Most new SUVs will do 20mpg or better. I routinely get 28mpg (highway) in my 316hp SUV. I average 23-24mpg in mixed driving.
 

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Hello Everyone,

In other exciting news, we were able to get a sustained 300kW worth of charge at a nearby Electrify America station, adding 200 miles of range in just 10 minutes!

Thank you for being on this adventure with us!
Rivian
This is an excerpt from another thread posted by Jimcgov3. It is from Rivian CS yesterday. If true it is very exciting indeed and would end our speculation on charging speed.
** UPDATE the quote I captured is False. Was used as an example only... Clearly I need to work on my thread skimming skills. Sorry for the misinfo.
 
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DB-EV

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This is an excerpt from another thread posted by Jimcgov3. It is from Rivian CS yesterday. If true it is very exciting indeed and would end our speculation on charging speed.
Wow - awesome.

Guys and gals - not sure which area the main post is, but I called customer service today while packing and asked for more info. Mostly no info. The only thing that could (maybe?) qualify as new-

1). EPA range - Rivian is now in the process of 'EPA testing'. Not sure if it is with the EPA, or practicing for whatever the EPA will do.

2). Cold weather range - This is important to me. They said they don't have info now, but following the cold weather testing we saw in twitter a few days ago, Rivian will be releasing information on how range is affected by cold weather.

3). Rivian is releasing more information about their showrooms (forget their fancy name) and test drives 'very soon'.

4). Customer service reps are basically in the dark on Driver Assist (or whatever it is branded). Information will come, but when I asked how it would compare to Supercruise, or just maintaining lanes on hwy with oversight, the rep basically said that they are told almost nothing about Driver Assist.

Maybe none of this is new, but this is more than I knew.
 

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This is an excerpt from another thread posted by Jimcgov3. It is from Rivian CS yesterday. If true it is very exciting indeed and would end our speculation on charging speed.
No, no, no... that was a made up example of the type of communication he wishes we would receive from Rivian.
 

azbill

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No, no, no... that was a made up example of the type of communication he wishes we would receive from Rivian.
Yes a made up unachievable number. At 300KW charging, you could get 110 miles in 10 minutes.
 

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Electruck, AzBill, I amended my post. Totally missed the headline above the quote. Math would also disprove the possibility of 200mi. in 10 minutes at 300KW with 450kw efficiency. good catch.
 

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And yes, an EV Newbie. I have a ten year old Honda CRV awd with a two inch lift (120,000 miles), which has driven past many a stuck F150 and Jeep on the beach ;) and a 2014 Impreza with like 18,000 miles.
As a F150 driver on the beach with a Wrangler too, I help out many Jeeps and Honda’s and moms SUVs on the beach. It’s called lowering your tire pressure. PSA over 😜
 
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Some more charging data points and taper info on the Mach E

How Fast Can It Charge? | Mustang MachE

 

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