Electrify America charging issues - More RAN stations because I don't want to deal with this nonsense.

ajdelange

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I used 2 EA stations this weekend, both at Walmarts and they were right off the freeway.
And if I plan my most commonly made trip in a Rivian as opposed to my Tesla I find the distance of the Walmarts I would be using much farther than the Tesla chargers I currently use.

I suppose in some small towns there may be some distance,
These are not in small towns. It's the Northeast corridor.

Now I will say that this is an impression. The trip planning software indicates chargers more off route and the Walmarts I know don't tend to be that close to freeways. Might be different in other parts of the country. We could even reason that in a remote area the Wallmarts are closer to the freeways in order to make them convenient for people from many towns whereas is populous areas they tend to be in population centers.


but there are always restaurants near the Walmarts as well.
Well that won't help much with charging speed.

FYI I charged successfully both times using the EA app, had a minor startup glitch on one charger, but had it charging within a minute.
That seems to be representative of the status quo. And more importantly here, should be taken as positive news by those who may be concerned about this aspect of Rivian ownership.





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Mjhirsch78

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2 hours?!? I can't invest that much time to watch...what are your key takeaways @Mjhirsch78 & @RivianXpress ?
1. The EA charging infrastructure at the 350 KW level is still not talking well with the Porsche Taycan, so they have to use 150 kw a lot. The chargers are trying to give more than the car can take. It seems Rivian should make sure they work with these companies to assure we can use these fastest chargers.
2. Charging in the cold is slower, by quite a bit. Not news to EV drivers, but really made real in this and other videos heh.
3. Tapering based on battery percentage is an interesting variable as you won’t get the full speed charging nearly as long as I thought. Again, the engineering squad on this forum has pointed it out, but seeing it was good for reinforcing that reality.
4. I am not in a rush on the road, but I still would prefer that 350 whenever possible on the highway heh. Watching them wait at 150 chargers was oddly frustrating.
5. The fastest way to travel is to actually charger hop to assure fastest charging for most charging
due to taper. As a full-to-empty driver, this will be a shift.
6. Putting routes in navigation tells the battery when to precondition. So even if I’m using Waze, I will plug the route into the truck for that purpose. An option to precondition in the UI would be sweet.
7. The number of chargers that don’t work properly and the fact we need to track which ones actually worked recently is a sign they still have work to do.

Hope that helps.
 

ajdelange

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1. The EA charging infrastructure at the 350 KW level is still not talking well with the Porsche Taycan, so they have to use 150 kw a lot. The chargers are trying to give more than the car can take. It seems Rivian should make sure they work with these companies to assure we can use these fastest chargers.
The job of the charger is to pump current at the rate the car demands. But I suspect that the car commands voltage and increases the voltage request until it's current demand is satisfied. If the charger works with other brands we have to suspect that it is the car that is at fault.

2. Charging in the cold is slower, by quite a bit. Not news to EV drivers, but really made real in this and other videos heh.
a)So if you warm the battery it will charge faster. This was mentioned in the video
b)The Porsche has a battery temperature display. Message to RJ and Elon: Please give us this!
c)Regen charges the battery so regen will be limited when it is cold.

3. Tapering based on battery percentage is an interesting variable as you won’t get the full speed charging nearly as long as I thought.
The taper profile differs between cars and as conditions vary among cars. People post taper curves here and on other sites. They must be considered representative.

4. I am not in a rush on the road, but I still would prefer that 350 whenever possible on the highway heh. Watching them wait at 150 chargers was oddly frustrating.
This is a point I keep wanting to make and keep forgetting. If you are not in a hurry, use the 150 kW charger instead of the 350. This will be easier on your battery and, if you go to dinner, you won't have to get up in the middle of the meal to move the truck.
5. The fastest way to travel is to actually charger hop to assure fastest charging for most charging
due to taper. As a full-to-empty driver, this will be a shift.
You will quickly get used to it. Remember that while these small charges minimize the total time charging extra time is wasted in getting to the charger and back to the freeway. Sometimes the gain, even with the extra travel time counted in, just doesn't seem worth it.


7. The number of chargers that don’t work properly and the fact we need to track which ones actually worked recently is a sign they still have work to do.
Rather than a comment here I have a question: Is the present state of the EA system such that you would have concerns with respect to a road trip in your Rivian?


Hope that helps.
It ought to. Good set of observations!
 

azbill

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Now I will say that this is an impression. The trip planning software indicates chargers more off route and the Walmarts I know don't tend to be that close to freeways. Might be different in other parts of the country. We could even reason that in a remote area the Wallmarts are closer to the freeways in order to make them convenient for people from many towns whereas is populous areas they tend to be in population centers.
I live in Arizona and all of the EA sites, Walmarts or otherwise, are right next to freeways.
 

Mjhirsch78

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Rather than a comment here I have a question: Is the present state of the EA system such that you would have concerns with respect to a road trip in your Rivian?
Not really. The bigger issue is the Montana/North Dakota black hole for charging. Heh. We’ll figure out a way through once that gets solved.

P.S. Thanks for your feedback.
 

davrow_R1T

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5. The fastest way to travel is to actually charger hop to assure fastest charging for most charging
due to taper. As a full-to-empty driver, this will be a shift.
Worse for me, I'm a full-to-half driver. In an EV I'll never be below the taper point! :(
 

ajdelange

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You will try various things and wind up charging in the way that proves most convenient to you. You will find 50% to 100% charging very inconvenient as it will add hours to your charging time and is detrimental to battery life to the point that Tesla won't allow it in their cars if you try to do it more often than occasionally.

If you are like most the majority of your charging will be done at home. You simply plug in when you get home at night and leave each morning with a "full" tank. Full in quotes because you will set full to be 70 - 90%. Thus at home you will be a 40 - 80% driver or something like that dependent on your daily driving demand.

Road trips are different and the kinds of considerations discussed in this thread pertain. Again you will be guided into a pattern that is convenient for you. This depends somewhat on where you travl or, more particularly, on the charging infrastructure where you travel. You will most likely wind up being a 20 - 80% driver. For insight use ABRP to plan trips you intend to take when you get your truck.
 
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ajdelange

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The bigger issue is the Montana/North Dakota black hole for charging. Heh. We’ll figure out a way through ...
Yes you will and that's the main thing to understand.
There are dozens of campgrounds along I90 that have 14-50R listed on plug share. True, charging at 14-50R rates isn't the greatest but it is charging. Also many of these places may be closed for the winter.
 

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Not really. The bigger issue is the Montana/North Dakota black hole for charging. Heh. We’ll figure out a way through once that gets solved.

P.S. Thanks for your feedback.
Being from the Pacific NW, eastward travel is hampered greatly by the entire Intermountain West lacking any DCFC system. If you want to get from coast to coast in a non-Tesla, the Northernmost route still requires you to take I-70 through Central Utah and Denver. This makes it especially painful for folks in the Puget Sound area. It will fill in eventually, but much of that massive five-state region remains a no-go zone for quick passage.
 

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Hopefully we get info on charging curve soon, could make the 400mi plus pack more or less desirable because it certainly would take forever to charge up at 150-200kw
 

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According to the math Rivian will be only 400v, they said 140 miles in 20 mins which is 150kw charging at peak iirc.
 

Mysta

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According to the math Rivian will be only 400v, they said 140 miles in 20 mins which is 150kw charging at peak iirc.
From the verbiage I saw that was their adventure network, which could be indicative of max charging too but could just be a reasonable network to build starting out.
 

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According to the math Rivian will be only 400v, they said 140 miles in 20 mins which is 150kw charging at peak iirc.
RJ has stated over 200 kW sustained, and it is impossible to infer voltage from kW. 150 kW @ 400V is indistinguishable from 150 kW @ 450V, 800V or 920V.
 

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Just to add more data to the discussion - the Rivian Adventure Network preliminary hardware info we saw in the Salida lease packet said:
Voltage: 200 - 920V
Current: 500A
Power (peak / continuous): 300kW / 300kW


At least the RAN hardware will be capable of 800V. But I agree with @DucRider's comment... we can tell that 400V is adequate to meet their claims, but not that they are limiting us to 400V. In addition to that, even if we find out it is going to charge at a higher voltage, it still may not be much faster than the 200kW they have mentioned, or the 140 miles in 20 minutes.
 
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