Electrify America charging issues - More RAN stations because I don't want to deal with this nonsense.

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
579
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Understood. But not everyone has time to pre-warm the battery prior to supercharging. An EV sitting in freezing temperatures for 10+ hrs while skiing and then driving 20 minutes to a Supercharger will not be warm. It happens.
If (Tesla) you come off the ski hill and just drive to the SC then no, the battery won't be warmed enough. But if you ask the car to navigate to the SC then the aux heater will kick in and it probably will be. Now this depends, of course, on how cold soaked the battery is, its thermal mass, how big the heater is etc. I'm guessing that in the majority of cases that 20 minutes of aux should do the trick as that seems a reasonable design target for Tesla but even so it is possible that one could experience circumstances outside the design envelope. But this is nitpicking. What I want people to be aware of is that if you pull up to a 350 kW EA station in your brand new Rivian and don't get 350 kW charging that does not necessarily mean that either the station or the car is broken. There of plenty of factors other than failure that can limit charging speed.





Advertisement

 
Last edited:

Skigh

Active Member
First Name
Skigh
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
31
Reaction score
18
Location
Vancouver Canada
First Name
Skigh
Vehicles
Jeep
If (Tesla) you come off the ski hill and just drive to the SC then no, the battery won't be warmed enough. But if you ask the car to navigate to the SC then the aux heater will kick in and it probabky will be. Now this depends, of course, on how cold soaked the battery is, its thermal mass, how big the heater is etc. I'm guessing that in the majority of cases that 20 minutes of aux should do the trick as that seems a reasonable design target fo5 Tesla but even so it is possible that one could experience circumstances outside the design envelope. But this is nitpicking. What I want people to be aware of is that if you pull up to a 350 kW EA station in your brand new Rivian and don't get 350 kW charging that does not necessarily mean that either the station or the car is broken. There of plenty of factors other than failure that can limit charging speed.
And As a person who has been waiting for 2 years for my first BEV I can appreciate that point. Nothing worse than having extreme expectations and then having the rug pulled out from underneath you as you quickly feel like you were wrong in your decision. I think I will keep reading these pieces in order to keep my expectations realistic and more informed. What Rivian's charging network and/or partnerships look like, if they ever come to fruition, are unknown, just like what we will be receiving in less than a year. I'm optimistic but feel like I will be more educated so please keep posting real and technical opinions.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
579
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Problem with these guys is they don't understand what's important and so do not interpret their trips in a useful way. So the main conclusions one could draw from the video is
1)Berners are really good looking dogs
2)You might expect a hiccup or 2 with CCS charging.

Number 2 is the reality of significance to would be Rivian owners. It's going to be a problem but in the case of the great majority of readers here I predict that it will not be enough to diminish the delight I think these trucks will bring to you,

The video shows some screen shots and they showed 500 Wh/mi for the Mach e. Not unseemly for going up hill with a wet/slushy substrate. Presumably this is at least double the normal consumption for this car. Other displays showed that 80% of energy was going for traction with the rest going for accessories such as cabin and battery heat. Not quite the 50% that would pertain were the doubled consumption explained by "cold".
 
OP
RivianXpress

RivianXpress

Active Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
41
Reaction score
46
Location
West Coast
Vehicles
Model 3, Sprinter, KTM TPI, BMW R1250GS
Occupation
Retired
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
Problem with these guys is they don't understand what's important and so do not interpret their trips in a useful way. So the main conclusions one could draw from the video is
1)Berners are really good looking dogs
2)You might expect a hiccup or 2 with CCS charging.

Number 2 is the reality of significance to would be Rivian owners. It's going to be a problem but in the case of the great majority of readers here I predict that it will not be enough to diminish the delight I think these trucks will bring to you,

The video shows some screen shots and they showed 500 Wh/mi for the Mach e. Not unseemly for going up hill with a wet/slushy substrate. Presumably this is at least double the normal consumption for this car. Other displays showed that 80% of energy was going for traction with the rest going for accessories such as cabin and battery heat. Not quite the 50% that would pertain were the doubled consumption explained by "cold".

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that once again multiple Electrify America chargers were not functioning.

Veteran EV users understand chargers not always working but newbies are going to be very surprised to find non-functioning chargers at multiple locations.

EA should funnel some of that Dieselgate money into QC so they have a more robust and functioning network.
 

azbill

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bill
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
320
Reaction score
227
Location
Arizona
First Name
Bill
Vehicles
GMC Sierra, Bolt, Sky
Occupation
Engineer
Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that once again multiple Electrify America chargers were not functioning.

Veteran EV users understand chargers not always working but newbies are going to be very surprised to find non-functioning chargers at multiple locations.

EA should funnel some of that Dieselgate money into QC so they have a more robust and functioning network.
EA is already working to replace some of the original dispensers with more reliable ones. The original ones from ABB were really bad, and many of the newer installations are using Signet units.

I watched the video and these are the infamous ABB units.
 
Last edited:

McMoo

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
19
Location
St. Louis
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 Performance
The EV "Cannonball" record was just broken by a Taycan using CCS charging (primarily EA):
https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-electric-cross-country-cannonball-record/


That was impressive. Not so impressive in this video of Kyle going up the east coast. EA still has major issues. We’re potentially into 2023 for our purchase so there will be plenty of time to make a decision if it’s worth it to go outside of the Tesla world after seeing RAN and EA improvements.


 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
579
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
The video demonstrates a couple of things. First is that the EA network is, I would have to say, not quite to beta yet. Second is that, despite this, it is usable. The guy was able to make the trip. The things he reported make it clear that the major problems are software/communication related. Wy do we think the RA network will not also be subject to those?

He is apparently unaware of a couple of things. First is that EA has nothing to do with VW. It is using the money VW agreed to pay as part of the Dieselgate settlement. That's as far as the relationship goes.. Second, he seems unaware that one ought to stay out of the top and bottom 10% (or even better, 20%) SoC bands. This improves battery life. Can't tell whether he understands taper or not.
 

McMoo

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
19
Location
St. Louis
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 Performance
The video demonstrates a couple of things. First is that the EA network is, I would have to say, not quite to beta yet. Second is that, despite this, it is usable. The guy was able to make the trip. The things he reported make it clear that the major problems are software/communication related. Wy do we think the RA network will not also be subject to those?

He is apparently unaware of a couple of things. First is that EA has nothing to do with VW. It is using the money VW agreed to pay as part of the Dieselgate settlement. That's as far as the relationship goes.. Second, he seems unaware that one ought to stay out of the top and bottom 10% (or even better, 20%) SoC bands. This improves battery life. Can't tell whether he understands taper or not.
Watch his other videos, he is one of the most knowledgeable people online about EVs and understands taper and SOC. There are dozens of long road trips in Tesla’s and other EVs on the out of spec YouTube channel. He is also a main contributor to insideevs.com

Low SOC is used on trips to maximize charging speeds, and sometimes out of necessity with long legs.

Using 100% of the battery is fine on occasion so long as the car doesn’t sit at the extremes for long periods of time.

Switching chargers is annoying (never happens in my Tesla) and once more EVs are on the road these stations may actually be filled up so EA better get their act together or RAN better have enough coverage to not have to solely rely on EA.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
1,154
Reaction score
579
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Watch his other videos, he is one of the most knowledgeable people online about EVs and understands taper and SOC. There are dozens of long road trips in Tesla’s and other EVs on the out of spec YouTube channel.
I'll take your word for it but there is little evidence of understanding of the principles (he doesn't seem to understand the roles of car and charger during the charging process either) in this video.

Low SOC is used on trips to maximize charging speeds, and sometimes out of necessity with long legs.

Using 100% of the battery is fine on occasion so long as the car doesn’t sit at the extremes for long periods of time.
I wouldn't say it is "fine". "Permissible if you have to on occassion" would be more like it. Your bio says you have a 3. Do you drive it in the yellow or red as a matter of course? This guy is happy to arrive at a charger with only a few miles range left. This is not something I would be comfortable with battery longevity considerations aside. Maybe I'm just a wimp in my old age.

Switching chargers is annoying (never happens in my Tesla)
I have certainly done it in order to get an unpaired charger if one became available but soon realized that the liklihood that the guy you are paired with will leave in a few minutes is pretty high to the point its not worth the trouble.

..and once more EVs are on the road these stations may actually be filled up so EA better get their act together or RAN better have enough coverage to not have to solely rely on EA.
This, as I mentioned, assumes that RA will be better in this regard. It too will have its initial rollout glitches. The thing that is a bit disquieting about EA is that they have had quite some time to resolve many of these problems and have not been able to do so despite a big mea culpa and promise from the president about year ago. Part of the problems may be attributable to the various standards bodies moving the goal posts on them. To me the important message here is that this guy's experieces are not enough to frighten me off by any means. I would take a long road trip in a CCS only vehicle without hesitation today.
 
Last edited:

McMoo

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2020
Messages
20
Reaction score
19
Location
St. Louis
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3 Performance
I would take a long road trip in a CCS only vehicle without hesitation today.
I think we’re at different stages in life. I would only hesitate because of having young kids and not wanting any added annoyances on an already long and difficult road trip. I’m not really worried about being stranded.

I agree with your other points. I usually keep my 3 around 50% nowadays since driving is very predictable.

For me , the battery is akin to eating unhealthy food or drinking, doing it in moderation or infrequently is fine. You can charge to 100% and go down to 0%, it’s not going to ruin your battery if you rarely do it. If it’s a habit, it might eventually result in range loss.
 

bajadahl

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alan
Joined
Apr 10, 2020
Messages
164
Reaction score
190
Location
Austin, TX
First Name
Alan
Vehicles
Lexus LX470
Occupation
IT
I'll take your word for it but there is little evidence of understanding of the principles (he doesn't seem to understand the roles of car and charger during the charging process either) in this video.

I wouldn't say it is "fine". "Permissible if you have to on occassion" would be more like it. Your bio says you have a 3. Do you drive it in the yellow or red as a matter of course? This guy is happy to arrive at a charger with only a few miles range left. This is not something I would be comfortable with battery longevity considerations aside. Maybe I'm just a wimp in my old age.

I have certainly done it in order to get an unpaired charger if one became available but soon realized that the liklihood that the guy you are paired with will leave in a few minutes is pretty high to the point its not worth the trouble.

This, as I mentioned, assumes that RA will be better in this regard. It too will have its initial rollout glitches. The thing that is a bit disquieting about EA is that they have had quite some time to resolve many of these problems and have not been able to do so despite a big mea culpa and promise from the president about year ago. Part of the problems may be attributable to the various standards bodies moving the goal posts on them. To me the important message here is that this guy's experieces are not enough to frighten me off by any means. I would take a long road trip in a CCS only vehicle without hesitation today.
The guy from Out of Spec Motoring is Kyle and I have watched most of his videos especially his cross country road trip videos. They are informative for how he drives. His approach is very different from yours @ajdelange. I do not know his background but I doubt very much that he has any formal training and no EE degree. He shows his real world experiences driving EVs and how he get's across country as fast and efficiently as he can. He is the current EV Cannonball record holder driving across country in his 2019 Model 3 and I think he just broke that record in the Taycan. The Taycan is a media vehicle so he couldn't care less about the longevity of the battery. As far as his own model 3 he doesn't keep them long enough to care. He put 60,000 miles on his 2019 before dumping it for a 2020. I'm sure he'll dump that one soon. He does understand charging curves/taper because his philosophy is to drive deep in the pack stopping often to charge just enough to the taper and hit the road again. He believes it is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. He never discusses car or battery care as far as I have seen. Some of his better videos give details of the battery burn rate, charging times, and distance that I find useful in my planning along with ABRP.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Messages
119
Reaction score
166
Location
Park City, UT
First Name
Greg
Vehicles
2015 Tesla Model S 85D, 2019 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad Premium, Pre-order Bollinger B1, Pre-order Rivian R1T
He does understand charging curves/taper because his philosophy is to drive deep in the pack stopping often to charge just enough to the taper and hit the road again. He believes it is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. He never discusses car or battery care as far as I have seen. Some of his better videos give details of the battery burn rate, charging times, and distance that I find useful in my planning along with ABRP.
This is essentially how I drive my Tesla on longer trips. I generally roll into a Supercharge with 20 miles or less of remaining charge. Intentionally. I’ve done numerous 2,000+ mile trips this way. 5 years and 60k miles and I’ve not noticed any degradation in battery capacity, efficiency or performance.
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top