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Electric F150 Lightning EV to be revealed May 19

Atlrivian

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what’s the thoughts on weight/towing in the R1T in terms of actual mileage?
I suspect it will be similar to all other electric vehicles with a possibly 50%ish range loss if towing something like an airstream.

I have absolutely nothing to base this on *cough cough RJ* aside from researching other electric vehicles. There are a fair number of people who have written anecdotally about their experiences with Model 3s and Xs.
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riviancanucknb

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No must have features for me. My house is not equipped for V2H.
This is not V2H. It is a backup power source.

To use this all you need is a generator panel. Cost to get that installed in Canada is ~ $600 I suspect less in the US and it may even be less when you consider you're doing the charger install at the same time.

This feature alone to me may be the deal killer. Being able to run my home off my truck during a winter storm will allow me to unload my $1000+ generator and save all the space it takes up, it is a big big deal.

The largest problem I have with the lightning are three:

- The actual design sucks - it's boring as hell compared to Rivian or Hummer. If I am going to pay this much for a vehicle I expect it to have more design elements... Ford really blew this.

- I have *ZERO* faith in Fords ability in the software department. They have a horrible track record with Sync, their business is also not structured to repair and improve things with software over the lifetime of a vehicle. These touted "software updates" are likely going to turn out to be vapourware.

- Which gets to the last point - dealers. You have to buy this through a dealer. A dealer who has every incentive to try to get you BACK TO the dealer as often as possible. I hate car dealers.

It is going to be a tough choice, esp. since Rivian decided to drag their heels on the max pack which puts its delivery date squarely in line with the lightning. I put down the deposit on it & will decide over the next 6 months.
 

manitou202

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All EVs are going to be terrible at towing for a really long time. Even the claimed 500mi CyberTruck will probably require 45-60 minutes for charging, only get 200 miles of useful range when towing, and most charging sites aren't setup for trailers.

The Ford is going to be the clear winner for contractors and businesses who use their trucks mostly for around town jobs. Occasionally towing a trailer to a job site. The cost combined with some of the job site power capability is a huge plus.

The R1T is the high tech, off-road, back country truck. Kind of a mix of between a LandRover truck (if that was such a thing) and a Tacoma TRD Pro. Towing capability and performance will probably be very similar between the two. Both won't be great for towing on long road trips. We are more likely to see R1Ts with roof top tents than towing a big trailer.

The Cybertruck is mostly for Tesla fans and people who want something that looks obnoxious. I don't think the CyberTruck will work well as a work truck, and it probably won't be great as an off-road camping truck either. These will mostly be pavement queens that drive around town.
 

ja_kub_sz

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Ford just announced the electric F-150 (I watched the live stream last night).

90k Rivian
0-60 3's
Tows 11,000lbs
Range 400+ miles

90k Ford
0-60 4.6
Tows 10,000lbs (targeted?)
Range 300 miles (maybe?)

I'm fearful that the Ford Lightning will be a consumer dud just like their new uber powerful hybrid engine in the Aviator (494 hp and 630 lb-ft of torque) that no one bought.

My biggest knocks against Ford and why I'm fearful the F-150 Lightning will be a disaster (and I did own a F-150 platinum) going into the reveal are as follows...

1. Range

230 miles, equals 175 miles real world and worse in extreme cold, towing etc. 300 miles, which Ford didn't even mention during the live stream makes me doubtful that it'll even get that, which again translates into 225 miles real world and is abysmal... And again no pricing information for the upgraded battery leaves me wondering.

The ICE Ford F-150 Lariat Power Boost (leather seats for a reasonable comparison to the R1T) 4x4 is 56k and gets nearly 700 miles and tows 12,000+lbs.

2. 0-60 mid 4's

Well now with the Dodge TRX clocking in at 4.5sec has a base price of 70k I again am wondering what the F-150 Lightning "extended battery" will cost. Also the TRX and all Dodge Rams for that matter have far better interiors then the Fords do. So who cares how fast the lightning is, because it's really not that fast at all.

3. Price

I will openly state 40k base price is impressive, but Ford F-150 fleet sales are in excess of 250,000 units a year and I would guess that the $7,500 credit won't be in existence for long after all the fleet orders are placed by the droves of municipalities that also have those extra tax incentives Ford eluded to. Also the base price F-150 XL supercrew is 35k and I'm sure you can get a deal on that from most dealers (F-150 Lightning dealer price gouge?). Let alone a 90k+ loaded truck that does absolutely nothing the cheaper ICE trucks do better (towing, payload, distance, luxury options, etc). Cost of ownership I will give them, but the consessions you make to get it come at a consumer cost, so it's a wash if not a net loss.

4. Lack of compelling options

The F-150 Lightning doesn't offer anything you can't find in other Fords. That massive verticle screen is now in the Mach-E and Expedition. The 9kwh battery, well the Power Boost F-150 currently for sale has a 7.2kwh battery and can power your house and tools, etc. All the Lightning has is a great frunk, and I 100% mean that. I do love the frunk, but come on Ford give people a serious reason to buy this vehicle.

5. Towing

ICE Full Size Trucks
F-150 12,700lbs
Ram 1500 12,750lbs
Silverado 13,400lbs

The Lightning is "targeting 10,000lbs" according to Ford's website... So 9,750lbs maybe? This is 20% less than its ICE equivalent and might only be able to hit 100 miles of distance while doing it. To me that sounds completely insane! I mean the smaller R1T out tows the V8 Tundra.

I can't say I'm surprised, but I can say I'm disappointed.

My hot take the day before the reveal.

Rivian R1T R1S Electric F150 Lightning EV to be revealed May 19 Screenshot_20210520-063044
 
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protamine

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I'm not in the market for a truck but if faced with the choice between a $90,474 loaded F150 with 300 mile range or a $93,000 loaded R1T (which requires ghastly combination of $2,500 blue or yellow paint and $2,000 green interior to get to that price), I'd definitely go with the R1T.
Its not ghastly if youre a seahawks or oakland A's fan....

Havent read the whole thread but theres a big contingent on FB and Reddit who are clamoring that the ford is the better deal. For 70k I'd rather have a unique badge. And dont forget your 90k R1T has 400 mile range.
 

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PostMinivanDad

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Just chiming in for the R1S crowd here: with Ford saying many of the F-150’s parts are shared between the ICE and Lighting versions and judging from the Lightning frame pictures circulating… It doesn't seem like that much of an investment would be required to make electric Expeditions and Navigators.

Understanding battery and chip resource limitations might slow down less important/profitable projects, I really wonder (hope?) if Ford will be announcing other uses for this “Electric T3” platform pretty soon.
 
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njcoach24

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300 miles, which Ford didn't even mention during the live stream makes me doubtful that it'll even get that, which again translates into 225 miles real world and is abysmal
Wouldn't this figure be almost the same for the R1T/S Launch Editions? Are we really only going to get 225 miles for 75K+?

I'm assuming Model X is the only thing currently comparable in terms of size/weight that is electric.
 

aw113sgte

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This is how I'm looking at the two options (for my use case).

Ford Pros over R1T:
Frunk larger and more versatile.
Way more power for tools/house/utility
Dealer network
Better communication, spec sheets

Rivian Pros over Ford:
Looks better
Power bed cover
Air compressor
4 motors
Self leveling/height adjustable suspension
Maybe/probably better software
Unique

Ford Negatives:
Not impressive reliability record with me
Likely longer wait
I have serious doubts about their ability to do a good job on software

Rivian Negatives:
Unproven manufacturer
Not sure about this whole getting vehicle serviced thing.
Unlikely to have the service manual support Ford does - guessing most everything will have to be done by Rivian.
Seems they are still testing and making changes, causing me to doubt their reliability testing (that automated charging door comes to mind)
I hate automated door handles-more to break and ice is a thing.
 

manitou202

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Wouldn't this figure be almost the same for the R1T/S Launch Editions? Are we really only going to get 225 miles for 75K+?

I'm assuming Model X is the only thing currently comparable in terms of size/weight that is electric.
The real world results versus EPA ratings are all over the place. Some EVs easily meet or exceed their EPA range at highway speeds. Others fall way below.

The Ford Mach-E seems to exceed it's EPA rating which means that Ford is probably choosing a conservative range number. Therefore the Lightning will probably have similar results.

We don't know anything about Rivian yet, so we can only hope their 300 mile claim for the launch editions is conservative.
 

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ja_kub_sz

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Wouldn't this figure be almost the same for the R1T/S Launch Editions? Are we really only going to get 225 miles for 75K+?

I'm assuming Model X is the only thing currently comparable in terms of size/weight that is electric.
Yeah that is true, but notice how Ford hasn't given any information as to pricing for their extended battery. That has me kind of bothered, especially when they're extended battery will get an estimated 300 miles of range. This doesn't lead me to believe that their range estimates are something that is obtainable, nor will the price be anything that's especially a cost-savings.

Again the Ford F-150 XL SuperCrew can be purchased for under $30,000. You can walk in right now to any Ford dealership and get the bare-bones SuperCrew for that price and it will tow more, drive further, and the cost of ownership versus the electric F-150 with all the other trade-offs I would strongly argue is overall a more compelling purchase.

The average selling price of a pickup truck in the US is around $55,000, and this is important because what will Ford be able to offer buyers at that price point in comparison to what other ICE pick-up trucks already offer.

Taking a $40,000 base price Lightning, adding an extended battery pack, and then a couple of bells and whistles that the majority of owners purchase with their pickup trucks, I would argue the price of the vehicle would be in excess of $60,000 which is a premium that may not offer that great of a return especially when fleet sale purchases will wipe away the tax credit threshold almost immediately.
 
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SANZC02

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Yeah that is true, but notice how Ford hasn't given any information as to pricing for their extended battery. That has me kind of bothered, especially when they're extended battery will get an estimated 300 miles of range. This doesn't lead me to believe that their range estimates are something that is obtainable, nor will the price be anything that's especially a cost-savings.

Again the Ford F-150 XL SuperCrew can be purchased for under $30,000. You can walk in right now to any Ford dealership and get the bare-bones SuperCrew for that price and it will tow more, drive further, and the cost of ownership versus the electric F-150 with all the other trade-offs I would strongly argue is overall a more compelling purchase.

The average selling price of a pickup truck in the US is around $55,000, and this is important because what will Ford be able to offer buyers at that price point in comparison to what other ICE pick-up trucks already offer.

Taking a $40,000 base price Lightning, adding an extended battery pack, and then a couple of bells and whistles that the majority of owners purchase with their pickup trucks, I would argue the price of the vehicle would be in excess of $60,000 which is a premium that may not offer that great of a return especially when fleet sale purchases will wipe away the tax credit threshold almost immediately.
The full pricing is targeted for this fall when they start taking orders. It is not unusual for a company to not have the price breakdowns at a launch of a new vehicle, especially for the options.
 

LoneStar

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There's a common theme to many responses here that bashes Ford's likelihood for achieving the claimed goal of 300 miles (not towing) for the extended battery. Like almost everything we say these days about Rivian, that's pure speculation right now. My speculation is that it will easily hit the 300 mile range in real-world testing and surpass it somewhat (20-30 miles) in final EPA rating. I say that based on actual range performance the Ford Mach-E is showing in many real world tests and owner experiences. Ford "sand-bagged" their ratings because they did not want to fall short. The exact opposite of Elon's tactics. Furthermore, the current Mach-E ratings are based on 88% battery power storage potential to start with, so they built-in future degradation effect to preserve mileage down the road. There's speculation that Ford may even use OTA updated software to unlock some of that to expand available driving range on installed hardware.

I might also point out that presently we still don't have any real EPA rating for the Rivian. So we're all banking on the initial battery hitting the 300 mark without a basis for that expectation either.
 
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cwoodcox

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Just chiming in for the R1S crowd here: with Ford saying many of the F-150’s parts are shared between the ICE and Lighting versions and judging from the Lightning frame pictures circulating… It doesn't seem like that much of an investment would be required to make electric Expeditions and Navigators.

Understanding battery and chip resource limitations might slow down less important/profitable projects, I really wonder (hope?) if Ford will be announcing other uses for this “Electric T3” platform pretty soon.
I would ditch my R1S reservation if I could get an EV Expedition with that sweet frunk.

I don’t think Ford’s timeline or pricing will match up, though.
 

Sdvictor

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Yeah that is true, but notice how Ford hasn't given any information as to pricing for their extended battery. That has me kind of bothered, especially when they're extended battery will get an estimated 300 miles of range. This doesn't lead me to believe that their range estimates are something that is obtainable, nor will the price be anything that's especially a cost-savings.
It's buried in the NY times article. 59k for the extended battery
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/business/ford-electric-vehicle-f-150.html

"The truck is expected to go on sale next spring, with a starting price of $39,974 for a model that can travel 230 miles on a full charge. A version with a range of 300 miles starts at $59,974."
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