Electric F150 Lightning EV to be revealed May 19

[ElectricDan]

Jokes aside I did reserve a F150. Its kind of a wash right now for me between these choices. The pros to the Rivian are the somewhat increased performance, 4 motors and independent air suspension. But the improved trunk, established network, V2H technology are all very attractive features.

Tbh I also like how Ford is apolitical and for the working man. I want an electric truck because of the tech and because I believe they're superior vehicles. Environmental concerns are a very distant third in my decision making. I wanted the rivian for the tech and because it was the only option. They're more political than I'd like. When rivian dropped the autonomous language and the electro-chromatic roof I was really disappointed.

Rivian is going to have to really blow me away with the test drive or I may be a ford guy pretty soon.

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[PAFDenver]

I'm right there with you ElectricDan.
I had expected to scoff at the Lightning announcement, but I am going to reserve one. It's not a clear cut winner, but there is certainly a Pro & Con list for both vehicles. If Rivian made their frunk easy-loading like the F150 and let me use the truck's battery to power the house in an emergency then the Rivian would be a clear winner, but those are 2 HUGE advantages for the Ford.
I hate to think of moving back to 2 motors and not having air suspension, but the reality is that I probably need those features 10% of the time that I will benefit from the frunk or emergency power.
I still WANT to prefer the Rivian, but it really is a wash for me.

 

[davrow_R1T]

.If Rivian made their frunk easy-loading like the F150 and let me use the truck's battery to power the house in an emergency then the Rivian would be a clear winner, but those are 2 HUGE advantages for the Ford.

Not everyone desires those features, bit I do. I want an EV truck. Brand? Anything but GM. Rivian is losing its lead, for my dollars.

 

[Sdvictor]

Tbh I also like how Ford is apolitical and for the working man.

Ford was the only major auto company to sign onto both the california stricter emissions agreement and to the Paris climate agreement. They also spurned the Trump administration and publicly applauded others when they (like GM in 2020) did. I'm just assuming the average person might not be cognizant of such actions of large corporations.

Everything is political, regardless whether or not People recognize it. Even how someone lives their life and where they choose to live is political. It always has been. It always will be.

 

[EVSport7]

https://www.slashgear.com/ford-f-150-lightning-is-a-tesla-powerwall-on-wheels-19673534/

" Down the line, Ford says, it has even more ambitious updates for the system, Ford Intelligent Power won’t just call the F-150 Lightning’s battery into play during emergency stations, but will aim to offset domestic use during high-cost, peak-energy hours. If your truck is plugged in during those periods – often in the afternoon or early evening – then its battery can be used to keep the home running, switching back to the grid to top-up overnight when electricity rates are lower."

Wow, I really hope this comes out sooner vs. later. Now you don't even have to get something like a Powerwall if your truck can do that for you.

And...I just saw that if you buy the extended range pack they give you the nicer 80A home charger. ?

 

[TessP100D]

Problem 1: Rivian already sold all of its production for roughly the first year if the timeline for deliveries lines up with what folks are currently predicting. So marketing to the masses as an unproven company with a year or more wait is just plain dumb.

Problem 2: I will never buy a Ford. There are a LOT of people who think similarly. Rivian doesn’t need to work hard to convince these folks. Some folks will ONLY buy Ford. Good on them and nothing Rivian does will change that.

Problem 3: Rivian is not competing with the volume of Ford. They can be a small player making eventually 1 million vehicles per year and be a screaming success. Ford outselling them has little bearing on their success.

Not sure about those statements. Ford make a very good truck product. You may not like Ford, but they make wonderful trucks. Rivian will struggle with the completion. It’s a business after all.

Besides Tesla, how many new car manufacturers have made it in the last 100 years? Zero.

time will tell.

 

[njcoach24]

Not sure about those statements. Ford make a very good truck product. You may not like Ford, but they make wonderful trucks. Rivian will struggle with the completion. It’s a business after all.

Besides Tesla, how many new car manufacturers have made it in the last 100 years? Zero.

time will tell.

My gut is that Rivian will be absorbed into Ford...I don't think the brand will go anywhere but I do think Ford will take over at some point.

 

[TessP100D]

My gut is that Rivian will be absorbed into Ford...I don't think the brand will go anywhere but I do think Ford will take over at some point.

That’s a good observation and you might be right.

I hope they continue up to make the Rivian truck. It’s has a place in the market.

 

[Friscorays]

Not sure about those statements. Ford make a very good truck product. You may not like Ford, but they make wonderful trucks. Rivian will struggle with the completion. It’s a business after all.

Besides Tesla, how many new car manufacturers have made it in the last 100 years? Zero.

time will tell.

I would argue with the zero number. Just off the top of my head VW, Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini have all been in business less than a 100 years and still seem to be doing OK.

 

[Autolycus]

I would argue with the zero number. Just off the top of my head VW, Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini have all been in business less than a 100 years and still seem to be doing OK.

Hyundai Motor Company was formed in 1967, just 54 years ago. They're also doing pretty well. Kia was formed in 1944 and is obviously now part of Hyundai, so maybe someone could validly argue that Hyundai's history goes back to 1944, but still, that's well under 100 years.

Toyota was formed in 1937, which is <100 years. Nissan in 1933. Honda in 1946.

SAIC was formed in the 1955 and is the 7th largest manufacturer in the world.

I suspect that Tess100PD simply missed a major qualifier of "US manufacturer".

 

[Friscorays]

Hyundai Motor Company was formed in 1967, just 54 years ago. They're also doing pretty well. Kia was formed in 1944 and is obviously now part of Hyundai, so maybe someone could validly argue that Hyundai's history goes back to 1944, but still, that's well under 100 years.

Toyota was formed in 1937, which is <100 years. Nissan in 1933. Honda in 1946.

SAIC was formed in the 1955 and is the 7th largest manufacturer in the world.

I suspect that Tess100PD simply missed a major qualifier of "US manufacturer".

I'll add Chrysler and Jeep then.

 

[Autolycus]

I'll add Chrysler and Jeep then.

I think the argument against their inclusion is that they are not surviving companies. They are now just brands/divisions owned by Fiat/Stellantis.

It's a silly premise to being with, so it's not really worth as much discussion as you and I have now spent on it.

 

[Riviot]

Hyundai Motor Company was formed in 1967, just 54 years ago. They're also doing pretty well. Kia was formed in 1944 and is obviously now part of Hyundai, so maybe someone could validly argue that Hyundai's history goes back to 1944, but still, that's well under 100 years.

Toyota was formed in 1937, which is <100 years. Nissan in 1933. Honda in 1946.

SAIC was formed in the 1955 and is the 7th largest manufacturer in the world.

I suspect that Tess100PD simply missed a major qualifier of "US manufacturer".

Many of those companies do manufacture in the U.S. as it's cheaper to do so than pay the import tariffs.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

That’s a good observation and you might be right.

I hope they continue up to make the Rivian truck. It’s has a place in the market.

I was a previous owner of a Ford/Lincoln owner (F-150 platinum and Lincoln MKZ Hybrid) and I personally have seen the R1T on numerous occasions. As far as build quality and fit and finish the R1T (thus far) is a quality product on par with that of Land Rover and even some Range Rover products. Again owning both Fords and Lincoln's, Rivian's product is a nicer, higher quality and more compelling EV then the Lightning or anything else remotely close to production.

The quality products Rivian will produce will be far greater than that of any Ford line product, with maybe the only exception being $100,000 plus Lincoln sub-models, but that's still debatable. The biggest strength Rivian has going for it is price point considering what you're getting (or what Rivian claims it's EV's are capable of).

Rivians 85k Truck
Tows 11k lbs
0-60 3 seconds
400 mile range

Ford can't even replicate any of these specs at 90k and they're the highest volume selling truck manufacturer in the world!

That statement alone should really make you think about the current capabilities of the major auto manufacturers. Tesla could never claim any of these amazing specs above their legacy competitors at any point in time during their early product development and yet they succeeded beyond anyone's expectations.

The problem with major auto manufacturers is their own inherent structure holds them back. From overly expensive labor, to overly problematic unions and most of all the bean counters who hold back and stifle quality project development. Rivian is doing exactly what Tesla did, with the exception that they are making the right choices where Tesla had otherwise flounder due to the hubris and ostentatious personality of Elon Musk.

To bring up the argument of how few auto manufacturers have succeeded in developing their brand over the last hundred years citing only Tesla is valid, but why not say that now that we've seen Tesla succeed other EV manufacturers can follow suit and do the same? Looking at Tesla and their success can very well show other would-be startups how to succeed in improving upon the work that Tesla has already done. It's like in boxing when the long-reigning undefeated champion finally does fall, all of his would-be opponents know the process of how to beat them. Tesla has shown the world how to beat the big three, let alone other overseas brands.

Tesla should be used as the inspiration to show other companies not only that it can be done, but how it can be done better. Rivian is using the Tesla model, but expanding upon it and other fruitful ways. Look at the relationship with Amazon and their delivery vehicles. Look at their willingness at platform outsourcing and partnerships (Ford). Look at their overall strategy in approaching the auto market with a truck as opposed to a luxury sedan or worse yet roadster. Rivian is doing a better job then Tesla did in approaching their early product development an ultimate business model.

There's no reason why rivian won't be successful based on seeing the success of Tesla. I'm not saying Rivian and will be another Tesla, but I'm saying Rivian is showing more positive signs then negative ones in light of the success of Tesla.

And to that I say I hope Ford doesn't buy out Rivian. I think Rivian has a better product then Ford.

 

[0=====0]

All this comparison with Ford F150 and losing customers to F150 is overhyped. The market is big enough for both.

Rivian from Day 1 knew they had to carve out their target audience. So their target audience has always been the Jeep Wrangler/LandRover crowd.
F150's target audience is, well F150 owners.

Shows in the design and feature list.
For example, Rivian went with a gear tunnel and seat to wear your snow boots/skis.
Ford F150 went for a load cell under the bed, and a bunch of power outlets that let you drive your power tools around the truck.

Would there be overlap? yes, but I would still prefer Rivian.
Not to mention R1S is still the only 7 seat SUV for the next few years!!!

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