Education on Nema 14-50 (50 amp) plug vs 60 amp hardwire

[miasm]

That's been hotly debated. The problem is the Rivian manual states "hardwired" and there are code provisions that say equipment should not be installed contrary to its label/manual.

Yes y, that's a fair argument I guess. Although as someone that designs and sells electrical equipment, if we applied that code provisions, we'd basically have to shut everyone down. Hardly a single piece of industrial equipment for factories et al is installed without something contrary to the manual just because something always comes up, but still gets inspected and certified as up to code. But no need to rehash the whole debate here, I get some would want to insist that.

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[irvineboy]

People say that the good thing about installing a NEMA 14-50 is that you can unplug and take your EVSE with you. But I don’t see where I would use it since the public chargers all have their own plugs already. Where would I ever need my mobile one?

 

[SANZC02]

People say that the good thing about installing a NEMA 14-50 is that you can unplug and take your EVSE with you. But I don’t see where I would use it since the public chargers all have their own plugs already. Where would I ever need my mobile one?

If you were ever stuck in a place with no chargers. Worst case scenario you could find a 110 outlet and charge to a level to get to a charger. You could also find a campsite with a 240utlet to plug into.

I keep mine in my Tesla, never used it but it is like insurance you have it but hope to never need it.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

People say that the good thing about installing a NEMA 14-50 is that you can unplug and take your EVSE with you. But I don’t see where I would use it since the public chargers all have their own plugs already. Where would I ever need my mobile one?

If you were ever stuck in a place with no chargers. Worst case scenario you could find a 110 outlet and charge to a level to get to a charger. You could also find a campsite with a 240utlet to plug into.

I keep mine in my Tesla, never used it but it is like insurance you have it but hope to never need it.

I think you're both talking about different things.

Keeping your portable EVSE in your vehicle is smart. But no one is regularly dismounting and transporting their wall-mounted EVSE (what we're talking about when discussing whether to hardwire, or not)

 

[ajdelange]

It wouldn't be against code to add that plug onto it, if the charger has the ability to set itself to a 40A continuous draw mode.

It is the fact that it can be adjusted (and it can) that disqualifies it. Adjustable EVSE can not, under code, be energized with a plug.

 

[irvineboy]

Is there a rebate with ESVE installation? I asked Southern California Edison and they said they weren’t aware.

 

[miasm]

It is the fact that it can be adjusted (and it can) that disqualifies it. Adjustable EVSE can not, under code, be energized with a plug.

Huh? My Grizzl-E can be adjusted and is energized with a plug. As are many other EVSEs for sale...


My guess is that because it *could* be set for more than the plug can handle that that part would technically make it violate code. But I'm not sure -- it's not uncommon, and is allowed per NEC, to have a 40A breaker on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, and you just have to set the dip switches in the EVSE to pull no more than 32A. That's a fully supported up to code setup. So, that statement can't be true.

What would be against code is a 60A breaker on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, like if you converted your hardwired run into an outlet without swapping out the breaker. That would be against code, and quite dangerous actually.

 

[ajdelange]

Huh?

Check Art. 625.

My guess is that because it *could* be set for more than the plug can handle that that part would technically make it violate code.

Yep.

 

[miasm]

Check Art. 625.

Yep.

Which section -- a quick glance over isn't showing it.

Are you talking about Section 10-C-3.1? or 22 A through C? Maybe if I keep sub-referencing the various tables et al it'll become apparent?

Again, multiple vendors have been selling for years EVSEs that you claim are violating code now. I just got one delivered a couple of months ago...I could set the DIP switches for more than the 40A breaker that the NEMA 14-50 plug is set up for. Again, fully up to code because there are no 40A connectors, so you're allowed to wire up to a 50A connector if you use a 40A breaker, and then you can plug the EVSE in and adjust it to be 32A continuous draw via its DIP switches. So it's an adjustable EVSE that's using a plug and could draw more current that what the install is rated for. They're for sale and have been, and per code you could plug them into something and set them to draw more than is allowed via the install, and the breaker should trip as the safety mechanism in that case. I'm not saying that's a good idea (it's a horrible one in fact). But the fact remains that you absolutely can sell and install an EVSE that's both adjustable and uses a plug instead of being hardwired.

 

[evguy]

Going EVSE instead of NEMA 14-50 (or any other plug) also further reduces any risk that you'll burn your house down charging EVs. At my old place (we moved, it didn't burn down!) I used a NEMA 14-50 garage outlet and the mobile charger to charge my Model 3 nearly every night. Repeated plugging and unplugging can loosen the connections inside the wall box over time. If it loosens enough, the current may start to "arc" inside the box or the wall, creating a fire risk. I learned this the hard way, luckily the arcing just melted the plug and the Tesla app alerted me to a malfunction before there was more serious damage. Now I charge the Model 3 with a hardwired tesla wall connector and will hardwire the Rivian charger when it arrives

I'm no electrician, but if you want to charge two EVs and your house gets 200A service, you likely have room to put each charger on its own dedicated circuit. Our electrician installed a 100A subpanel in the garage, which splits into a 40A circuit (32A charge current) for the Tesla charger and a 60A circuit (48A max charge current) awaiting the Rivian charger.

 

[Aroohoo]

Is there a rebate with ESVE installation? I asked Southern California Edison and they said they weren’t aware.

At the Federal level, there was a credit added as part of the Inflation Reduction Act.

States and power companies may have their own incentives.

 

[miasm]

I used a NEMA 14-50 garage outlet and the mobile charger to charge my Model 3 nearly every night. Repeated plugging and unplugging can loosen the connections inside the wall box over time.

Is there any reason you didn't just buy another charger to just leave plugged in there instead of dealing with the mobile charger dance everyday?

 

[irvineboy]

I just installed a Nema 14-50. It charges 9.6 kW per hour. The Rivian charger will do 11.5 kW per hour but I figure the extra 1.9 kW per hour is what, an extra 1-2 hours I save overnight? Yeah aesthetically it looks nicer but don’t know if I will get it.

 

[fhteagle]

FYI, OpenEVSE allows you to easily disable its built in GFCI checks, thereby eliminating the "double GFCI problem". It can be ordered with a 14-X plug that will fit 14-30, 14-50, and 14-60 (because it skips the neutral pin). Therefore I consider the OpenEVSE to be a good choice for locations that have the NEMA 14-50 on a GFCI.

The OpenEVSE will also happily drop down to level 1 operation if properly adapted to a wall socket, 120v RV outlet, etc.

I have certainly been happy with my OpenEVSE unit at home and for charging at electrified camp sites.

 

[BigSkies]

FYI, OpenEVSE allows you to easily disable its built in GFCI checks, thereby eliminating the "double GFCI problem". It can be ordered with a 14-X plug that will fit 14-30, 14-50, and 14-60 (because it skips the neutral pin). Therefore I consider the OpenEVSE to be a good choice for locations that have the NEMA 14-50 on a GFCI.

The OpenEVSE will also happily drop down to level 1 operation if properly adapted to a wall socket, 120v RV outlet, etc.

I have certainly been happy with my OpenEVSE unit at home and for charging at electrified camp sites.

This is good information. I had a 14-50 plug installed, and GFCI became a thing.

The electrician didn't install a GFCI breaker because it was to be used as an EV charger, but the inspector insisted that a GFCI breaker be installed because it's an outlet. Except GFCI breakers for GE panels are apparently caught up in the supply chain crunch, so I've been waiting since July to close out this home project.

I am worried about the dual-GFCI thing becoming an issue, but I don't know how real of an issue that is until I have an EV.

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