Education on Nema 14-50 (50 amp) plug vs 60 amp hardwire

[Arky]

I went with a wall outlet because it's nice to have access to 220 power in the garage for other tools (welder, air compressors, etc) Hardwire doesn't give you that option, And for what, really? At 40A the car charges fully in 14 hours. 60A reduces that to nine and a half. Unless I'm driving the full 300 miles over the course of 10 hours every day it wouldn't make a difference.

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[irvineboy]

I am deciding toward a 14-50. The 60 amp is slightly faster but like you said, 2kW more an hour is like 30 minutes faster in the real world. Not substantial enough. But the wall charger does look nice!

 

[jollyroger]

I struggled with this at first when we got our first EV (Hyundai ioniq electric) we wound up going with the 14-50 and a juicebox. I'm glad I did that as we went through 4 juiceboxes until I finally just bought a chargepoint. I don't want to imagine having to undo hardwiring that many times.

We were probably just unlucky but I think Juicebox had problems in the past. Chargepoint has been rock solid. But being able to just unplug it was a godsend.

 

[irvineboy]

So people generally agree that the ability to plug and unplug is better than 60 amp hardwire? I don't really get the unplug part, I would probably always leave the 14-50 plug in.

 

[pc500]

Previous owner of my house had a 10-30 receptacle installed in corner of garage. Curious about why? There is an interior laundry room with clothes dryer so no need for garage clothes dryer.

In any case, I’ll plan to get a 14-50 to 10-30 adapter to utilize until I get hardwired charger installed. Assume this will be a bit faster than 120V receptacle…

Faster, yes, but just put a 10-30 plug on the charger and set the dip switch to 24 amp until you install it.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

So people generally agree that the ability to plug and unplug is better than 60 amp hardwire? I don't really get the unplug part, I would probably always leave the 14-50 plug in.

I do not agree, no.

hardwired isn;t just faster…. It’s safer and more reliable too. Many jurisdictions require GFCI breakers for NEMA 14-50 installs, and nuisance trips are common complaints. There have also been fires and arcing issues with receptacles that can be avoided with a hardwired install.

NEMA 14-50 has its place…. But unless you have a specific need for it, hardwired is better.

 

[kewlasu]

So people generally agree that the ability to plug and unplug is better than 60 amp hardwire? I don't really get the unplug part, I would probably always leave the 14-50 plug in.

You would only be unplugging it when u need to replace your wall charger, move it to another location, or plug something else into the receptacle. Otherwise, u leave it plugged in.

 

[rodhx]

So people generally agree that the ability to plug and unplug is better than 60 amp hardwire? I don't really get the unplug part, I would probably always leave the 14-50 plug in.

I tend to agree with you. I have a 40A 14-50 plug now but in reality NEVER use that plus for anything else. Went with the plug with my first EV, a Bolt, thinking if I travelled I might take the home 40A EVSE vs the 32A Chevy version. Never did though.

And that "small increase" to 48A is a 20% increase, so not so small after all. Yeah, 98% of the time it's irrelevant, but that could be useful at times you need to charge outside your normal schedule. My wiring is 60A-ready so I just need two breakers and 48A EVSE to hardwire & upgrade. If I was installing my first EVSE I would absolutely go 48A for the best home capability.

 

[Zoidz]

I do not agree, no.

hardwired isn;t just faster…. It’s safer and more reliable too. Many jurisdictions require GFCI breakers for NEMA 14-50 installs, and nuisance trips are common complaints. There have also been fires and arcing issues with receptacles that can be avoided with a hardwired install.

NEMA 14-50 has its place…. But unless you have a specific need for it, hardwired is better.

Agree.

If you want or need to use an outlet, NEC 2017 and 2020 require GFCI. Attached is a map showing what states have adopted what version of NEC. However, local jurisdictions can adopt later versions. Or you may not care about following NEC at all...

To reduce/eliminate nuisance trips, you can use a Class C GFCI breaker that trips at 30ma, vs a Class A breaker that trips at 5ma. Example - Siemens QE260.


NEC 2020 625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[miasm]

Bottom Line Up Front -- Just install a NEMA 14-50 and call it a day. There's no benefit to a hubble or nicer connector (I use them exclusively at work, but for a home EV install it's counter-productive, imho).

Why a NEMA 14-50?

• The 50A is enough speed. I charge ~1-2 times a week, run the car down to ~75 miles and plug it in. It's fully charged waaaay before the next morning.
• If the EVSE is being finicky or goes bad, you can just unplug it and plug in the included Rivian one, or replace it without having to get an electrician to help out.
• Flexibility. In my case, I had an issue where I had to store some stuff in my garage. Being able to take it off the wall, and slightly extend it to reach out the garage allowed me to keep charging.
• When my friend with an EV visited we just installed a NEMA 14-50 splitter on the port, plugged both in, and set the cars to charge at half speed instead of having to wake up in the middle of the night to swap cables.
• If you ever sell the house and say they have a Tesla or something else, the plug vs hard wired get an electrician is one less thing for them to have to do, or if they weld the NEMA plug would be handy vs hard-wired, etc.

Benefits to hard-wiring:

• 20% Faster charging
• Cleaner install

My hard-wired oven, when I went to replace it had a scarred up and burnt electrical box; bad electrical installs can happen to both NEMA plugs and hard-wired installs.

 

[EVTrukHog]

Bottom Line Up Front -- Just install a NEMA 14-50 and call it a day. There's no benefit to a hubble or nicer connector (I use them exclusively at work, but for a home EV install it's counter-productive, imho).

Why a NEMA 14-50?

• The 50A is enough speed. I charge ~1-2 times a week, run the car down to ~75 miles and plug it in. It's fully charged waaaay before the next morning.
• If the EVSE is being finicky or goes bad, you can just unplug it and plug in the included Rivian one, or replace it without having to get an electrician to help out.
• Flexibility. In my case, I had an issue where I had to store some stuff in my garage. Being able to take it off the wall, and slightly extend it to reach out the garage allowed me to keep charging.
• When my friend with an EV visited we just installed a NEMA 14-50 splitter on the port, plugged both in, and set the cars to charge at half speed instead of having to wake up in the middle of the night to swap cables.
• If you ever sell the house and say they have a Tesla or something else, the plug vs hard wired get an electrician is one less thing for them to have to do, or if they weld the NEMA plug would be handy vs hard-wired, etc.

Benefits to hard-wiring:

• 20% Faster charging
• Cleaner install

My hard-wired oven, when I went to replace it had a scarred up and burnt electrical box; bad electrical installs can happen to both NEMA plugs and hard-wired installs.

Apologize for this elementary question, but I'm waiting on delivery of my wall charger and analyzing this very scenario. When you refer to utilizing a NEMA 14-50, are you proposing to just utilize the Rivian portable charger in lieu of the wall charger? Or are you proposing to modify the wall charger so that it can be plugged into a 14-50 outlet (which I didn't think was an option).

Thanks for clarifying and sharing information!

 

[miasm]

Apologize for this elementary question, but I'm waiting on delivery of my wall charger and analyzing this very scenario. When you refer to utilizing a NEMA 14-50, are you proposing to just utilize the Rivian portable charger in lieu of the wall charger? Or are you proposing to modify the wall charger so that it can be plugged into a 14-50 outlet (which I didn't think was an option).

Thanks for clarifying and sharing information!

You buy the variant of the wall charger with the NEMA 14-50 connector on it (those actually sell in higher quantities than the hardwire variants), or you could use the included Rivian one.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

You buy the variant of the wall charger with the NEMA 14-50 connector on it (those actually sell in higher quantities than the hardwire variants), or you could use the included Rivian one.

Rivian does not sell a NEMA 14-50 pigtail version of their Wall EVSE. You'd have to modify it (against code, probably) or go with an aftermarket EVSE.

 

[miasm]

Rivian does not sell a NEMA 14-50 pigtail version of their Wall EVSE. You'd have to modify it (against code, probably) or go with an aftermarket EVSE.

Interesting, I didn't know that their big guy doesn't have that option. Their smaller charger (the one that it comes with) has a slot on the back so that you can wall mount it and plug it into a NEMA 14-50 outlet if you want. That's what I did while I was waiting for a replacement EVSE for my one that broke. It's a wall mount charger, it's just also portable (my Enel X also can slide off it's wall mount and be turned portable if I wanted to).

It wouldn't be against code to add that plug onto it, if the charger has the ability to set itself to a 40A continuous draw mode.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

It wouldn't be against code to add that plug onto it, if the charger has the ability to set itself to a 40A continuous draw mode.

That's been hotly debated. The problem is the Rivian manual states "hardwired" and there are code provisions that say equipment should not be installed contrary to its label/manual.

Setting the maximum current isn't the only issue (the Rivian Wall EVSE is configureable for max current).

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