Driver+ Is not up to snuff: My thoughts after a 2,200 mile road trip

[mgc0216]

I just finished driving my truck from the factory in Normal to my home near Portland over 2,200 highway miles over three days, and by far the biggest disappointment was the driver+ system. I'm going to share some thoughts, but would love to hear other people's opinions. As I said in the linked post, if my wife had experienced what I experienced wrt Driver+ before we got the truck, we would not have the truck. It's that bad.

The biggest issue is that Rivian just doesn't have a good vision system right now. Multiple times the truck would brake very aggressively because it "saw" an obstacle. This was particularly bad with multi-trailer semis. It would see the trailers as a truck and the cab as a car - and on two separate occasions it thought the "car" was in my lane and slammed on the brakes. On another occasion the truck swerve dramatically because I think it thought a patch in the center of the lane was an object.

Another real basic scenario that gave the truck problems on more than one occasion had to deal with how highway assist handled freeway exits. On a few occasions the truck tried to follow the right lane line and pull me off to the exit vs. following the left lane line and keeping me on the freeway. I'd pull the wheel to get the truck to stay on the freeway which would result in loud chimes and then the truck oversteering a bit as it broke loose from highway assist (think of playing tug of war then the other person lets go).

Another gripe which is just play poor ux design relates to how lane keep assist and highway assist show up on your screen. With highway assist you get a visual indicator how far in front of you another vehicle is. This gives you an indicator of when you're close enough that you'll start to slow down so you can change lanes and avoid the reduction in speed. However, if you're just using lane keep assist you don't get that indicator. You can certainly adjust the follow distance in both modes, but only HA show the indicators. This is not a huge deal if you have nobody in the left lane, you can just get over really early and avoid the truck slowing, however, if someone is coming up in the left lane and you're trying to gauge whether or not to initiate a pass it can be problematic - expecially if you start initiate the pass and then come in range of the car in front of you as the truck slows pretty rapidly and you'll find yourself in the left lane slowing down with someone barreling up your six. In any case, it makes ZERO sense why I have a visual indicator in one mode and not the other.

I mentioned this in the above thread, but the system isn't great in the rain. Which is fine, I'd expect that. However, the warnings it throws up are REALLY over the top "System Failure. Truck is shutting down" is one of the messages. There was no failure, and the truck was just slowing down. On my Subaru I get a very innocuous message "Eye Sight is not available right now" - Rivian needs to temper the messages a bit so as to not give me a heart attack. Same thing as whenever a mapped road ends with Highway Assist. Just say "Mapped road ending, please assume control of the vehicle" in a nice white font not glaring red like I'm under nuclear attack.

Finally, the whole system just whines all the time. The slightest drift in the lane and your'e admonished to "take control of the wheel" - the warnings when you get near a lane line are pretty abrasive as well.

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[SANZC02]

I just finished driving my truck from the factory in Normal to my home near Portland over 2,200 highway miles over three days, and by far the biggest disappointment was the driver+ system. I'm going to share some thoughts, but would love to hear other people's opinions. As I said in the linked post, if my wife had experienced what I experienced wrt Driver+ before we got the truck, we would not have the truck. It's that bad.

The biggest issue is that Rivian just doesn't have a good vision system right now. Multiple times the truck would brake very aggressively because it "saw" an obstacle. This was particularly bad with multi-trailer semis. It would see the trailers as a truck and the cab as a car - and on two separate occasions it thought the "car" was in my lane and slammed on the brakes. On another occasion the truck swerve dramatically because I think it thought a patch in the center of the lane was an object.

Another real basic scenario that gave the truck problems on more than one occasion had to deal with how highway assist handled freeway exits. On a few occasions the truck tried to follow the right lane line and pull me off to the exit vs. following the left lane line and keeping me on the freeway. I'd pull the wheel to get the truck to stay on the freeway which would result in loud chimes and then the truck oversteering a bit as it broke loose from highway assist (think of playing tug of war then the other person lets go).

Another gripe which is just play poor ux design relates to how lane keep assist and highway assist show up on your screen. With highway assist you get a visual indicator how far in front of you another vehicle is. This gives you an indicator of when you're close enough that you'll start to slow down so you can change lanes and avoid the reduction in speed. However, if you're just using lane keep assist you don't get that indicator. You can certainly adjust the follow distance in both modes, but only HA show the indicators. This is not a huge deal if you have nobody in the left lane, you can just get over really early and avoid the truck slowing, however, if someone is coming up in the left lane and you're trying to gauge whether or not to initiate a pass it can be problematic - expecially if you start initiate the pass and then come in range of the car in front of you as the truck slows pretty rapidly and you'll find yourself in the left lane slowing down with someone barreling up your six. In any case, it makes ZERO sense why I have a visual indicator in one mode and not the other.

I mentioned this in the above thread, but the system isn't great in the rain. Which is fine, I'd expect that. However, the warnings it throws up are REALLY over the top "System Failure. Truck is shutting down" is one of the messages. There was no failure, and the truck was just slowing down. On my Subaru I get a very innocuous message "Eye Sight is not available right now" - Rivian needs to temper the messages a bit so as to not give me a heart attack. Same thing as whenever a mapped road ends with Highway Assist. Just say "Mapped road ending, please assume control of the vehicle" in a nice white font not glaring red like I'm under nuclear attack.

Finally, the whole system just whines all the time. The slightest drift in the lane and your'e admonished to "take control of the wheel" - the warnings when you get near a lane line are pretty abrasive as well.

Thanks for the detailed write up.

I’m sure over time a lot of that will mature quite well. The one in my Tesla improved a lot since I bought it 6 years ago.

Can you provide what version of software you are on?

 

[mgc0216]

Thanks for the detailed write up.

I’m sure over time a lot of that will mature quite well. The one in my Tesla improved a lot since I bought it 6 years ago.

Can you provide what version of software you are on?

I am on the latest version I believe - 2022.15.0

 

[SANZC02]

I am on the latest version I believe - 2022.15.0

Thanks, they just announced they are releasing a new version that will have sand mode, curious what other improvements might be in that one.

 

[mgc0216]

Thanks, they just announced they are releasing a new version that will have sand mode, curious what other improvements might be in that one.

Literally just saw that and was wondering the same thing. Also wondering when I get can get over to the Oregon coast to try it out

 

[Scoiatael]

I just finished driving my truck from the factory in Normal to my home near Portland over 2,200 highway miles over three days, and by far the biggest disappointment was the driver+ system. I'm going to share some thoughts, but would love to hear other people's opinions. As I said in the linked post, if my wife had experienced what I experienced wrt Driver+ before we got the truck, we would not have the truck. It's that bad.

The biggest issue is that Rivian just doesn't have a good vision system right now. Multiple times the truck would brake very aggressively because it "saw" an obstacle. This was particularly bad with multi-trailer semis. It would see the trailers as a truck and the cab as a car - and on two separate occasions it thought the "car" was in my lane and slammed on the brakes. On another occasion the truck swerve dramatically because I think it thought a patch in the center of the lane was an object.

Another real basic scenario that gave the truck problems on more than one occasion had to deal with how highway assist handled freeway exits. On a few occasions the truck tried to follow the right lane line and pull me off to the exit vs. following the left lane line and keeping me on the freeway. I'd pull the wheel to get the truck to stay on the freeway which would result in loud chimes and then the truck oversteering a bit as it broke loose from highway assist (think of playing tug of war then the other person lets go).

Another gripe which is just play poor ux design relates to how lane keep assist and highway assist show up on your screen. With highway assist you get a visual indicator how far in front of you another vehicle is. This gives you an indicator of when you're close enough that you'll start to slow down so you can change lanes and avoid the reduction in speed. However, if you're just using lane keep assist you don't get that indicator. You can certainly adjust the follow distance in both modes, but only HA show the indicators. This is not a huge deal if you have nobody in the left lane, you can just get over really early and avoid the truck slowing, however, if someone is coming up in the left lane and you're trying to gauge whether or not to initiate a pass it can be problematic - expecially if you start initiate the pass and then come in range of the car in front of you as the truck slows pretty rapidly and you'll find yourself in the left lane slowing down with someone barreling up your six. In any case, it makes ZERO sense why I have a visual indicator in one mode and not the other.

I mentioned this in the above thread, but the system isn't great in the rain. Which is fine, I'd expect that. However, the warnings it throws up are REALLY over the top "System Failure. Truck is shutting down" is one of the messages. There was no failure, and the truck was just slowing down. On my Subaru I get a very innocuous message "Eye Sight is not available right now" - Rivian needs to temper the messages a bit so as to not give me a heart attack. Same thing as whenever a mapped road ends with Highway Assist. Just say "Mapped road ending, please assume control of the vehicle" in a nice white font not glaring red like I'm under nuclear attack.

Finally, the whole system just whines all the time. The slightest drift in the lane and your'e admonished to "take control of the wheel" - the warnings when you get near a lane line are pretty abrasive as well.

Thanks for the write up. Its a bit disappointing that they still have a lot of work to do. Rain really should not be a factor. Autopilot in my Model Y works fine in the rain, and from what I've seen, Ford's blue cruise does not have issues with the rain as well.

In terms of exits, Tesla autopilot still sometimes has this issue, though its not as bad anymore. I usually try to stay away from an exit lane, and there are certain parts of the freeway where I've learned to deactivate the system so I won't have to oversteer to correct it.

 

[jjswan33]

Yeah I agree with most of your gripes, I also used it extensively in my trip to the southwest.

The part about passing semis in general is so true and easily when I get the most upset at Driver+. It often even with standard semi's (agree multi-trailer is worse) it will see the trailer in the right lane but think the cab is in your lane and hit the breaks while you are trying to quickly pass the semi. I just scream "%#%^$^" and slam on the accelerator.

Also got annoyed when driver+ is suddenly not available, often completely random, it alerts quite aggressively and then you start decelerating rapidly. I've gotten used to this and just aggressively jitter the steering wheel to disengage driver+ but then it will maintain ACC instead of slowing down.

Same in the rain as well, anything more than light rain the system is unusable.

 

[godfodder0901]

I just finished driving my truck from the factory in Normal to my home near Portland over 2,200 highway miles over three days, and by far the biggest disappointment was the driver+ system. I'm going to share some thoughts, but would love to hear other people's opinions. As I said in the linked post, if my wife had experienced what I experienced wrt Driver+ before we got the truck, we would not have the truck. It's that bad.

That's disappointing to me as well, but also a little confusing. I use the system all the time and don't see the issues you are talking about.

The biggest issue is that Rivian just doesn't have a good vision system right now. Multiple times the truck would brake very aggressively because it "saw" an obstacle. This was particularly bad with multi-trailer semis. It would see the trailers as a truck and the cab as a car - and on two separate occasions it thought the "car" was in my lane and slammed on the brakes. On another occasion the truck swerve dramatically because I think it thought a patch in the center of the lane was an object.

I see doubles as two semi trucks and have never had the system swerve on me. Phantom brake (but only in ACC), yes, swerve, no.

Another real basic scenario that gave the truck problems on more than one occasion had to deal with how highway assist handled freeway exits. On a few occasions the truck tried to follow the right lane line and pull me off to the exit vs. following the left lane line and keeping me on the freeway. I'd pull the wheel to get the truck to stay on the freeway which would result in loud chimes and then the truck oversteering a bit as it broke loose from highway assist (think of playing tug of war then the other person lets go).

Freeway exits work great for me (as in no issues or attempt to take the exit or even veer that way) 90%+ of the time. Disengaging HA is smooth and predictable (I wonder if you have active lane keeping on? It sucks... I leave it off ALL OF THE TIME).

Another gripe which is just play poor ux design relates to how lane keep assist and highway assist show up on your screen. With highway assist you get a visual indicator how far in front of you another vehicle is. This gives you an indicator of when you're close enough that you'll start to slow down so you can change lanes and avoid the reduction in speed. However, if you're just using lane keep assist you don't get that indicator. You can certainly adjust the follow distance in both modes, but only HA show the indicators. This is not a huge deal if you have nobody in the left lane, you can just get over really early and avoid the truck slowing, however, if someone is coming up in the left lane and you're trying to gauge whether or not to initiate a pass it can be problematic - expecially if you start initiate the pass and then come in range of the car in front of you as the truck slows pretty rapidly and you'll find yourself in the left lane slowing down with someone barreling up your six. In any case, it makes ZERO sense why I have a visual indicator in one mode and not the other.

The distance indicators show up when setting ACC, but do turn off. I am with you 100% here.

I mentioned this in the above thread, but the system isn't great in the rain. Which is fine, I'd expect that. However, the warnings it throws up are REALLY over the top "System Failure. Truck is shutting down" is one of the messages. There was no failure, and the truck was just slowing down. On my Subaru I get a very innocuous message "Eye Sight is not available right now" - Rivian needs to temper the messages a bit so as to not give me a heart attack. Same thing as whenever a mapped road ends with Highway Assist. Just say "Mapped road ending, please assume control of the vehicle" in a nice white font not glaring red like I'm under nuclear attack.

I have used it in the rain several times (WA liquid sunshine) and there are definite issues. Works most of the time but, you are right, the errors seem pretty random. I turn it off, then set it again and it generally works great.

Finally, the whole system just whines all the time. The slightest drift in the lane and your'e admonished to "take control of the wheel" - the warnings when you get near a lane line are pretty abrasive as well.

 

[lostpacket]

Thanks for the write up!

Would love to see the error messages. it's funny how often they are overlooked by software devs.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Thanks for the write up!

Would love to see the error messages. it's funny how often they are overlooked by software devs.

Ah, windows 95 style endless error windows... they really just need three physical buttons on the rivian.

CTRL+ALT+DEL

 

[LoneStar]

... they really just need three physical buttons on the rivian.
CTRL+ALT+DEL

I'd much rather have this one button

 

[huskybrewing]

I am a serial user of adaptive cruise control but have never used a more advanced system like what Driver+ is supposed to be. Do the problems you are describing apply to ACC also, or just Driver+?

 

[mgc0216]

I am a serial user of adaptive cruise control but have never used a more advanced system like what Driver+ is supposed to be. Do the problems you are describing apply to ACC also, or just Driver+?

Driver+ is the branding for a collection of features. ACC is part of that collection. The problems I described are across a variety of those features (highway assist, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, and acc). In particular ACC doesn't give you a visual indicator when you're coming into range of the car in front of you, and it also slows down very aggressively. Additionally, today I was using ACC and it thought the car in the oncoming lane was in my lane and started to brake the car (again aggressively). The ACC in Rivian isn't as good as the ACC in my 2020 Subaru IMHO.

 

[xyskis]

This is one of our concerns moving from the Model Y to the R1S. My wife and I love using autopilot on road trips to minimize driving fatigue/improve safety and it looks like this will be a shift several generations back. Thanks for the write up.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

@mgc0216 Thanks for the write up and Normal to Portland must have been an amazing trip.

Driver+ isn't anywhere near Tesla Autopilot, agreed, but I don't think it was/is meant to be especially at this point in the Rivian timeline.

Way back when GM was in courtship talks with Rivian (2019) one of the main points of a potential partnership was Rivian getting Super Cruise. GM however wanted exclusive access to Rivian tech with absolutely no other outside partnerships or platform sharing, Rivian of course said "no thanks".

But I've now logged 1k miles on my R1T and although it nowhere near AP, it is on par with other ACC systems on other legacy brands (comparing it to my JLR products, Alfa Romeo/Maserati, Ford).

Driver+ gets a 7/10 in my opinion, doing just what it should and nothing more. Buggy yes, but nothing out of character with this kind of tech.

I remember paying for full self-driving back in 2014 and showing my friends what autopilot could do on even basic residential roads and nearly veering off onto the shoulder multiple times. However being able to engage it on any road made AP so much more alluring and potentially dangerous (just saying).

This is definitely a work in progress, but for highway driving (which is all it can do) I find it adequate. But Driver+ as a compelling reason to buy Rivian, in no way shape or form would that factor into my decision making. Nor would I recommend that mindset for somebody who's considering a Rivian product, compared to the umpteen other reasons on why Rivian products are so phenomenal.

Truthfully my biggest gripes with the Driver+ system is it alerting you once you're going through toll booths that you have to take control of the vehicle and essentially disabling itself, and secondarily the speed limit caps on setting your cruise control and Driver+ here in Illinois with basically the average person driving 85mph on the expressway near Chicago. Those are the two biggest glaring issues I run into while driving my Rivian now over the last 1,000 miles

It's absolutely not a AP alternative/substitute, but I'll take it.

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