Dispute Between Carpenters Union and Irvine has weird Rivian twist.

[CommodoreAmiga]

Unions are a hot topic that can be debated for days. Personally, I have never been a fan of people getting priority for seniority and tenure over work-effort and ability which you see frequently in union contracts. I think there was a time when unions were absolutely necessary, it’s just with all of the labor law implementations between 1940 and 1970, that the benefits they provided are no longer as relevant as in the early days.

tell that to Amazon fulfillment center workers who have to urinate in bottles because their quotas are so high that going to an actual bathroom would get them fired.

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[azbill]

What did you do in college, and what do you do now?

I got an electrical engineering degree and have worked in aerospace my entire career, currently marketing engineering software. I am not against unions, I am just for freedom to decide whether or not I want someone else bargaining for me. For me I have had good pay, medical insurance and great benefits, including a small pension from one company and a 7 digit 401K account that I have saved up. I personally have no use for a union, I am much more of a self reliant person.

 

[SANZC02]

tell that to Amazon fulfillment center workers who have to urinate in bottles because their quotas are so high that going to an actual bathroom would get them fired.

I actually just did if they are reading this forum. I assume you are referencing the old New York Post article that was written by someone from a facility in England, unfortunately our US labor laws have no impact outside of our borders.

As I said, hot topic that I do not to wish to debate on this forum (or anywhere else) just providing my opinion. My opinion and a 5 dollar bill will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I will say I know people working in Amazon warehouses as well as UPS warehouses and UPS drivers. One union shop, one not, they all work very hard as it is tough work, but no one I know is peeing in bottles and talking to them I do not really see the difference between the two.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

I got an electrical engineering degree and have worked in aerospace my entire career, currently marketing engineering software. I am not against unions, I am just for freedom to decide whether or not I want someone else bargaining for me. For me I have had good pay, medical insurance and great benefits, including a small pension from one company and a 7 digit 401K account that I have saved up. I personally have no use for a union, I am much more of a self reliant person.

Sounds like you've done well for yourself (as most potential Rivian purchasers have). Don't let yourself fall into the trap thinking your experience is representative of those working unskilled and manual labor positions for companies that view their employees as less than "just a number". Think of the laws that had to be created because employers were doing the unthinkable to their employees. It's a shame we've had to legislate the most basic common decency.

 

[RobBot]

In and before college I worked a lot of lower wage jobs, including EMS, for a period of about 8 years.

Not once did I work for a company that didn't break labor laws in some way. Even with labor laws, they're difficult to enforce because EEOC doesn't take proactive action, only reactive action, and even then only if they have a slam dunk case (they choose which cases they take, and they have a 99% win rate, so take from that what you will).

Unions at least allow you to address conditions as a group. My experience as an EMT made me want to go into employment law. That's not the field I work in, but I've considered going back to law school. It's wild how unfairly treated workers in the US are, even salaried workers.

 

[Eeyore]

Personally, I have never been a fan of people getting priority for seniority and tenure over work-effort and ability which you see frequently in union contracts.

That doesn't happen in the IBEW. If you aren't being productive, it doesn't matter how long you've been with the company, you can be laid off. There's no seniority or tenure. Pretty sure that's the same for the pipe fitters union, at least in my state.

 

[State11]

It drives me crazy to see threads go off topic (not really here that much, but on another non-rivian site I frequent) and everyone continues to help drag it further off topic, but this time I'll jump on the bandwagon.

Decades ago, my first real job was as a management trainee at a unionized(Teamsters) trucking company (Roadway Express). I also worked as a non-union dock laborer at Roadway & TNT during college. Having been on both sides, I can say with certainty, that if there was no union....those workers would've been screwed. At least back then, not long after Reagan's deregulation, trucking was so competitive/cut-throat that companies had to heavily discount their rates just to get business. Once you got the business, you had to do everything possible to deliver it with minimal expense. If Roadway & all the other carriers had not had to cooperate with the unions, I don't think they would've blinked an eye to work their employees to death and paid them nothing.

On the other hand, I saw some crazy stuff both on both sides. The union filed a grevience against me because I moved a cart that was in a workers way. I saw other managers being more verbally abusive too workers than any football coach I ever had.

I lasted 5 years before moving on to more civilized industries, but I probably have better stories/memories from those 5 years than the rest of my career.

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