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Dear Rivian, FIXME: drive stalk UX

ThirteenElectrics

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Many times have I flipped the car from reverse to drive, or vise versa, only to find that it didn't take. It turns out, at least on G1 vehicles, that one can flub the stalk, see and feel it moving appropriately, but it's just shy of triggering the sensor. Now, you're still left in the mode you were in before! When backing into or out of tight parking spaces, that's not good, as you're usually only a foot away from disaster if the car is going in a different direction than you intended. At the same time, you're looking out for traffic or concentrating on your mirrors or camera, and you may not always look down to check the tiny, tiny indicator on the instrument panel.

So, my ask to Rivian is: 1) improve the experience so that the stalk needs to make a tactile click in order to switch from drive to reverse. The stalk is just too cheaply made to do what it needs to do. b) for those of us in G1 (and maybe G2) vehicles, add an audible chime when switching from drive to reverse (and vise versa) so that I know when the stalk change didn't work. Or c) ideally fix the sensitivity of the stalk to be higher.

Thank you (in advance), Rivian.
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electruck

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Never had any such issue with my G1. 🤷‍♂️
 
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ThirteenElectrics

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Never had any such issue with my G1. 🤷‍♂️
It can happen when one attempts to park quickly, as when parallel parking on a speedy, high traffic street, or exiting a driveway onto a narrow street, where cars are waiting for you to finish. The R1T turn radius can be large, necessitating some quick back and forth to turn 90 degrees.

I've been able to simulate it by pressing the stalk with a very quick motion. Sometimes the hand strikes the outside of the stalk, so it doesn't bump all the way, or sometimes the hand can slip a bit.
 

atebit

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The stalk has left me hanging occasionally, but for me at least it hasn’t been in a safety-critical situation.

The turn signal stalk is no less forgiving. Often when doing a lane change I end up either engaging it fully or tapping it back such that the other turn signal activates too. Drivers behind me must be all :rolleyes:.
 

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mpshizzle

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Your wish has been granted! Gen 2 stocks are quite a bit notchier. More resistance between notches, so no false positives
 

COdogman

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SwampNut

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This happened once or twice while doing car washes early on. I simply learned to tap the brake as it wants and to firmly make a change. If you think the stalk is defective have it checked, but there's no intrinsic design problem here. Learn to use it.
 

NoGoingBack

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I have never had this issue on my 23 G1 R1T at almost 50,000 miles. My stalk has a tactile click when I put it drive or reverse if you push it up or down all the way. There has never been a doubt for me which mode I am in and the indicator is plenty big for me even with out my glasses. I drive multiple vehicles for work and my Rivian is the best of all the electronic gear selectors I have to deal with. Only thing that beats it is the mechanical linkage to the transmission in my old truck.
 

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ThirteenElectrics

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Thinking about this a bit more, I think the best solution is to have the Rivian drivetrain software emit an “error grunt” noise only if the stalk hits neutral but doesn’t stay there long enough to activate neutral. That also handles the case where someone is at the car wash and didn’t press long enough to actually get to neutral.

Then, when I’m flipping from reverse to drive and I hear the alert, I know to retry more carefully.
 

Khaneric

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I've never had this issue but i do occasionally have an issue where I swore i hit the P button but it didn't trigger. It's rare though.
 
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ThirteenElectrics

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This happened once or twice while doing car washes early on. I simply learned to tap the brake as it wants and to firmly make a change. If you think the stalk is defective have it checked, but there's no intrinsic design problem here. Learn to use it.
If this issue has happened to multiple people, it is a design problem. There isn’t enough feedback and the drive change can fail halfway though. To force the user to compensate is a classic failure and excuse in UX and safety design. A good example to follow: The Federal Aviation Administration’s Human Factors Design Standard (HFDS) summarizes principles, guidelines, and best practices for designing systems, equipment, and workplaces that account for human capabilities and limitations. It is intended to improve safety, efficiency, and usability by ensuring that aviation systems are designed with human performance in mind. I partially credit it for the excellent safety record of American commercial aviation.

Cars have been recalled for rarer events. Sometimes you can’t even see the drive indicator on the instrument pane (!) it can be occluded by the steering wheel (depending on its articulation), which forces the user to bob their head around and is really… dumb.

The only question is whether it’s a big enough issue to warrant a fix. Failing to put the car into neutral is at least as common an issue, although one which is less severe. Both have the same fix: make an alert noise if the stalk hits neutral but doesn’t stay there long enough to actually lock into neutral. That’s clearly an error.
 
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NY_Rob

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... Sometimes you can’t even see the drive indicator on the instrument pane (!) it can be occluded by the steering wheel (depending on its articulation), which forces the user to bob their head around and is really… dumb.
That can be fixed by giving the operator the ability to move display items on the driver screen around. Some of us have been suggesting that for a long time now. There's a ton of wasted real estate on the driver's display.
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