Cost of ownership, parts, and right to repair

[rjcrowder]

I posted this on a different thread and then got to thinking I should start a new one.

The bottom line is that I've been thinking (and getting concerned) about what is this vehicle (R1T) going to cost me to keep on the road once the warranty is up - particularly with limited availability to get parts or fix it myself?

It seems to me that there are a couple of chronic issues that are not getting resolved quickly and there is a risk they will be long-term expenses. For example:

1. Front CV axles and hub issues. I've already had both front CV axles replaced at just under 30k miles. The job and parts would be several thousand $'s out of warranty and it seems like a chronic issue.
2. Air suspension and hydraulics issues. There are tons of threads with people experiencing issues with both at around 60k miles and the repairs are incredibly expensive.

These types of things concern me enough that I've been consciously trying to limit miles I put on the truck. I'd feel better about the issues if parts were available but it seems Rivian is not selling parts to consumers and aftermarket parts don't exist. Parts availability would also open it up (or make if feasible) for service outside of Rivian SC's.

Has anyone heard anything about parts availability? right to repair? etc.?

Sponsored

 

[SparkyR1t]

If you calculate cost of ownership with the current Rivian policies. No service data available, no diagnostic software available and no parts other than from Rivian I would say many of us cannot afford to keep the vehicle after the warranty expires. My hope is they offer something like Tesla does where for $1k a year for a two year minimum you can purchase an extended warranty or you can subscribe to their service manual.

 

[Rivdog]

The market doesn’t have much of a reason to service Rivians right now since almost all under warranty until at least 2027 - that’s when the first deliveries will start coming out of warranty based on time. There are some examples, of course, where milage is high enough to come out of warranty too, but surely not many yet. I’d expect the secondary market to be more robust by 2030, assuming Rivian remains successful.

Cost of repair after warranty expiration is a legitimate concern and one significant enough to make me question whether I can justify keeping my R1. After much consideration, I decided that I’m gonna roll the dice and hope it lasts 10+ years, mainly because nothing else even comes close except the Silverado EV at like $95k.

I hope Rivian does indeed offer a reasonably priced extended warranty. That would ease many of our concerns.

 

[rjcrowder]

The market doesn’t have much of a reason to service Rivians right now since almost all under warranty until at least 2027 - that’s when the first deliveries will start coming out of warranty based on time. There are some examples, of course, where milage is high enough to come out of warranty too, but surely not many yet. I’d expect the secondary market to be more robust by 2030, assuming Rivian remains successful.

Cost of repair after warranty expiration is a legitimate concern and one significant enough to make me question whether I can justify keeping my R1. After much consideration, I decided that I’m gonna roll the dice and hope it lasts 10+ years, mainly because nothing else even comes close except the Silverado EV at like $95k.

I hope Rivian does indeed offer a reasonably priced extended warranty. That would ease many of our concerns.

Yeah - as much as it pains me (cuz I love this truck!) I've wondered if I should trade it for something like the Silverado before the warranty runs out. I don't think it's near as good a vehicle, but at least with a conventional auto manufacturer you could get parts... Or at least I'd think you could...

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I had this discussion with my coworker yesterday as I'm currently driving a Rivian loaner for a suspension fault/limited performance issue. In general most vehicles now are well beyond what average joe "driveway mechanic" can work on. So many vehicles have interconnected systems, computers that need to be reset, or re-calibrated in order to function correctly.

One of the things that makes the R1 platform incredible to drive and adds to the versatility, is the cross linked, active damper suspension. Where that sucks, is it's so purpose built and bespoke to a Rivian, that I think the aftermarket is going to struggle to justify the R&D etc to put out a viable product that the "Driveway Mechanic" can confidently install at a competitive price.

I do hope Rivian follows what Tesla has recently done with their Right to Repair stance and the ability to order any part online (except the dumpster looking ones parts) and gives owners, like myself, that plan to keep their Rivian beyond the comprehensive warranty period,the ability to self repair without the need to spend thousands on shop rate labour.

*Edited last sentence for omission.

 

[beatle]

If you have Rivian service the vehicle out of pocket, if you don't have another form of transportation, it can be exorbitantly expensive for you to let it sit around in their lot while you rent a car. Right now Rivian is picking up those giant bills for people with vehicles under warranty, but out of warranty, driving a rental or paying to Uber everywhere for a month or longer will send your TCO through the roof with just a few tickets - and that's before you consider actual repair costs.

 

[Dark-Fx]

One of the things that makes the R1 platform incredible to drive and adds to the versatility, is the cross linked, active damper suspension. Where that sucks, is it's so purpose built and bespoke to a Rivian, that I think the aftermarket is going to struggle to justify the R&D etc to put out a viable product that the "Driveway Mechanic" can confidently install at a competitive price.

Just disconnecting the lines will mean needing "specialized" equipment, since you have to evacuate all of the air out of the system for it to function properly. There's probably a specific process to it as well.

 

[rjcrowder]

I'm with you that some things might be difficult to do on your own, particularly if you don't have access to a manual with the correct procedures. However, there are a lot of jobs you could do. For example I could easily do the CV axles (job they just did under warranty at less than 30k miles)... but you can't buy them anywhere! Only place I was able to find them was used on eBay.

 

[Seano]

These are interesting points. In the case of my ICE vehicles - even though I can't work on them, there are great local mechanics that specialize in ea type of car. I'll feel better if we see Rivian mechs pop up in the next couple of years.

 

[ndmiller]

Welcome to owing an expensive vehicle, they are all expensive to maintain. Don't believe me, read some threads @ ih8mud.com about Lexus LX570 (200 Series Land Cruiser) maintenance costs for their hydraulic suspension when it has issues (Dozens of threads about disconnecting the fancy suspension and putting in conventional coilovers.). 2nd best vehicle I owned (R1T #1), but it was 100K new and when things failed I was glad I had an extended warranty. Finally traded it on an R1T when the transfer case solenoid started acting up after extended warranty expired. It was a $3-$5K fix.

The answer is expensive cars use expensive parts and/or one off technology that mean expensive repairs out of warranty. Get an extended warranty, start a savings account, get rid of the car, but whatever you choose this isn't a Rivian specific issue. Try Porsche normal maintenance, it was almost $3K for an oil change.

As for right to repair, if I had a $ for everyone I know that bought a Land Cruiser, Land Rover, Porsche, 550/650 MB AMG whatever, Maserati, etc that tried to do their own repair or regular maintenance and screwed it up to be towed to a dealer I'd be a millionaire. You're going to get parts and tools and mess with parts replacement on an $100K EV SUV/PICKUP?? Rivian will definitely have the last laugh when it's towed to a SC.

 

[Chinna]

I wish Rivian offer extended warranty

 

[Schroederhc]

If there is any money in it, some outfit will. I think there is a thread or two on here where folks have found one or two of the main warranty companies offering them.

 

[JonW716]

Indeed, it will be very expensive down the road most likely. It was part of my decision to get out of it when I could without losing bigtime. I had it for 3-4 months and lost 10K, not to mention Rivian had it for the better part of a month. I could not justify keeping it with the issues or instability of their future.

 

[beatle]

You're going to get parts and tools and mess with parts replacement on an $100K EV SUV/PICKUP??

Your statement only warrants two question marks because the diagnostic software and parts aren't readily available to the public. Rivian has technicians diagnose and replace parts every day who don't have their PhDs; they just have access to Rivian's software that says what to replace, and they have access to the parts.

There are some specialty tools, sure, but a lot of things are just service-walled like so many other products so you're forced to pay the manufacturer for service or just give up and buy a new one because 3rd party shops can't function without the diagnostic tools and access to parts.

As you said, this isn't a Rivian specific issue, but it's not magic; it's greed and a desire for control. And unless you're driving an ultra-rare Carrera GT, an oil change on a Porsche isn't $3k.

 

[Kaiju]

I guarantee you Rivian would implode if out of warranty service for the general market still required vehicles to sit for weeks or months after waiting weeks or months for appointments and dealing with it came at the owner's expense. People grumble and put up with it now because loaners or rentals are comped to avoid running afoul of lemon laws while under warranty.

I see Rivian being between a rock and a hard place there. They can't maintain exclusive control over service with a mass market vehicle like the R2 if they can't service them effectively. it will become all about getting them serviced quickly, even if they're not the cheapest solution. Dealers already aren't and they stay consistently busy. When it's on their dime customers will get much more vitriolic than they are now, especially if their vehicles are sitting in line despite having waited for an appointment. I'd also argue that people who buy in the R2's price range also will have a lot less patience for exotic vehicle issues. If Rivian got a stigma that way down the road when there's a healthy number of 5+ year old R1's, their resale values would crash and it would scare off new buyers who intended to only hold them through warranty.

So they either need to dramatically build out service infrastructure or they have to open things up to third parties so the wait times don't sink their new vehicle sales. Personally I'd say they should be engaging third parties now to expand their footprint, but I expect they're trying to keep it in house to avoid paying shop rates at third parties for warranty work. Though with rental costs I wonder if it still wouldn't be cheaper. You don't need Rivian software or circuit drawings to change out suspension parts.

Sponsored