Apple CarPlay and Android for R1T / R1S?

[BradSomrak]

We could all stand to take the temperature down a bit.

I hope to one day be as passionate about anything as some are about CarPlay.

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[astonius]

I had mostly ignored this thread until now, and just read the last 60 or so posts. As I was reading the heated debate, I came to the same conclusion about 3/4 of the way through, and then I read this post. GaryL is right. You all have overlooked the most obvious answer. Rivian already has Alexa integration well underway, and Amazon owns 20% of Rivian. It's likely there is a long term vision regarding the Infotainment/ADAS system, heavily influenced or even controlled by where Amazon wants to be in the automotive market 10 years down the road. AA/CP isn't an integrated at the full vehicle system level, it's an app running in the infotainment system. If/as long as Rivian and Amazon have a vision of *total integration*, my bet is that it's highly unlikely to see AA/CP any time soon, if ever.

This has been discussed in multiple threads. In short, this justification is nonsense. Amazon does not compete with CP/AA. This notion that they are the hold-up is completely unfounded. Amazon integrates with CP/AA.

 

[Zoidz]

This has been discussed in multiple threads. In short, this justification is nonsense. Amazon does not compete with CP/AA. This notion that they are the hold-up is completely unfounded. Amazon integrates with CP/AA.

You're missing the point of my post. It's beyond integration with CP/AA.

 

[astonius]

You're missing the point of my post. It's beyond integration with CP/AA.

Even re-reading your post, CP/AA do not preclude this Alexa integration you want. Ford has Alexa integration alongside CP/AA today. Everyone seems to have the mentality that these are binary choices. All of these technologies can live alongside each other and provide the consumer the ultimate choice.

 

[Obioban]

Edit: "Alexa, drive me to Las Vegas on a scenic route, play country music, point out the historic places. Stop at any restaurant that has Shrimp and Grits on the menu."

AA/CP can't do that.

There’s actually nothing in that request that requires integration with the car. It’s not something you can currently do, but there’s no reason I see to think Alexa will be more capable of it in the future than Siri or okay google.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Offering CP/AA does hinder their ability to produce the best native system they can. Otherwise, simple logic would dictate they would be offering it if it was all gain and no downside. It's not like they woke up and found out from customers that this thing called CP/AA existed and they just flat out didn't realize it. They've assessed the landscape and made a strategic decision.

From a different point of view, offering CP/AA frees them to produce the best native system they can by not wasting time reinventing the wheel. AA/CP allow Rivian to concentrate on core functionality rather than a bunch of apps customers will be clamoring for when they get their truck and see the dearth of infotainment options.

Many companies have assessed the landscape and made the wrong decision. Rivian isn‘t Tesla, RJ isn’t Elon, and I’m not an acolyte saying that because Rivian made a decision that logic dictates it must be the correct one. One of the reasons I like Rivian is because they are NOT Tesla. I don’t need fart sounds in my car, and I don‘t need someone inflicting their idea of what’s “cool” onto core functionality of my vehicle at the expense of usability, whether infotainment or a steering yoke instead of a steering wheel. Rivian has chosen to make vehicles which have a form factor much closer to “normal” compared to Tesla’s offerings, so nobody should be surprised when reviewers and customers compare Rivians to Land Rovers, Jeeps, and other vehicles, all of which offer AA/CP in the U.S. market, as far as I know.

I understand that some people are saying that Rivian‘s ability to develop ADAS will suffer if their vehicles have AA/CP available. Given that Driver+ is closer to GM’s SuperCruise than Tesla’s FSD, and that GM‘s SuperCruise is supposed to be quite good / arguably better than Tesla’s FSD, and that GM was able to develop and/or refine SuperCruise while also supporting at least CP (I’m not as knowledgeable about AA) I think it’s safe to say that Rivian can do the same.

They are choosing to have what some will deem to be an inferior product in the short term in order to hopefully have a superior product in the long term. They have several years to develop their own system to make people care less about CP/AA, so we should just shelve this whole debate until then.

My understanding is that Rivian’s won’t permit hands-free texting at launch. If true, not being able to easily engage in something as basic as hands-free texting is not something Rivian can reasonably ignore for several years. Many of us, including me, will buy even if something as ubiquitous as AA/CP is missing. However, once Rivian satisfies the production demand of the early adopters then I suspect the typical buyers they will try to court will be far less compromising.

I want Rivian to succeed so I hope they include AA/CP sooner rather than later. I’ve used CarPlay in other vehicles but I’m coming from an off-road capable SUV which also forces me to use my phone’s small display or an iPad rather than the in-dash display for a library of apps. I’m probably less strident than others who want AA/CP but even I want to have something better than what’s in our 2006 Land Rover when I get my 2022 (maybe 2023?) Rivian.

 

[Zoidz]

There’s actually nothing in that request that requires integration with the car. It’s not something you can currently do, but there’s no reason I see to think Alexa will be more capable of it in the future than Siri or okay google.

Again, you're missing it, perhaps it's not clear what i was implying, I can provide deeper detail.

"Alexa, drive me to Las Vegas on a scenic route, play country music, point out the historic places. Stop at any restaurant that has Shrimp and Grits on the menu."

In this example, Alexa is integrated with the vehicle's ADAS, driving the car *autonomously* from Los Angeles to Vegas simply by voice command picking out a route that has not been taken before so new historical places can be visited. The country music being played comes from the user's playlist on Amazon and but is also contextual to the historical sights as appropriate. For example, it selects a route to include Bonnie & Clyde's death car in SImi Valley, and plays 4 or 5 Bonnie and Clyde songs as it approaches and leaves the vicinity. When it approaches the vicinity it asks the driver if they want to stop to see the Bonnie and Clyde car, and if they say yes, it parks the car and does an online transaction to purchase ETickets to the attraction. After they resume the trip, it identifies a restaurant with Shrimp and Grits, and asks if it should make a reservation, or order takeout for you. It then stops at the selected restaurant, parking or driving through as requested, etc.

You even point out what I'm trying to get across - Siri nor Google do this right now, so it's an open race to the start and finish line. Yes, Siri and Google *could* do it, but who does it *first* is always bragging rights and implied market leadership. At this time, Rivian/Alexa/ADAS integration is the closest possibility of being there. Neither Apple nor Google have confirmed vehicle manufacturing agreements. Amazon does. How pissed was Bezos that Virgin beat him to space?

 

[Obioban]

I wouldn’t expect the Rivian to be driving autonomously this decade.

 

[astonius]

Again, you're missing it, perhaps it's not clear what i was implying, I can provide deeper detail.

"Alexa, drive me to Las Vegas on a scenic route, play country music, point out the historic places. Stop at any restaurant that has Shrimp and Grits on the menu."

In this example, Alexa is integrated with the vehicle's ADAS, driving the car *autonomously* from Los Angeles to Vegas simply by voice command picking out a route that has not been taken before so new historical places can be visited. The country music being played comes from the user's playlist on Amazon and but is also contextual to the historical sights as appropriate. For example, it selects a route to include Bonnie & Clyde's death car in SImi Valley, and plays 4 or 5 Bonnie and Clyde songs as it approaches and leaves the vicinity. When it approaches the vicinity it asks the driver if they want to stop to see the Bonnie and Clyde car, and if they say yes, it parks the car and does an online transaction to purchase ETickets to the attraction. After they resume the trip, it identifies a restaurant with Shrimp and Grits, and asks if it should make a reservation, or order takeout for you. It then stops at the selected restaurant, parking or driving through as requested, etc.

You even point out what I'm trying to get across - Siri nor Google do this right now, so it's an open race to the start and finish line. Yes, Siri and Google *could* do it, but who does it *first* is always bragging rights and implied market leadership. At this time, Rivian/Alexa/ADAS integration is the closest possibility of being there. Neither Apple nor Google have confirmed vehicle manufacturing agreements. Amazon does. How pissed was Bezos that Virgin beat him to space?

These are really awesome ideas and features, and yes, I'm sure Amazon is interested in pursuing them, but they have nothing to do with CP/AA. Adding these features does not eliminate the benefits of CP/AA. Adding CP/AA does not impede on Amazon's ability to add these features to Rivian vehicles. They do not conflict.

 

[Zoidz]

These are really awesome ideas and features, and yes, I'm sure Amazon is interested in pursuing them, but they have nothing to do with CP/AA. Adding these features does not eliminate the benefits of CP/AA. Adding CP/AA does not impede on Amazon's ability to add these features to Rivian vehicles. They do not conflict.

I completely agree that they do not conflict from a customer perspective - I personally am all about choice. Note that my post was expressing my *belief* about what might be happening, not my *preference*. If you are Jeff Bezos owning 20% of an automotive company, they absolutely conflict from a competitive business viewpoint. We are talking about a guy who owns 20% of Rivian, and posted this "We're better than you" on Twitter about Virgin:

 

[astonius]

I completely agree that they do not conflict from a customer perspective - I personally am all about choice. Note that my post was expressing my *belief* about what might be happening, not my *preference*. If you are Jeff Bezos owning 20% of an automotive company, they absolutely conflict from a competitive business viewpoint. We are talking about a guy who owns 20% of Rivian, and posted this "We're better than you" on Twitter about Virgin:

No one has really articulated how they conflict even from a business standpoint. If this was the case Amazon would not make their apps and services available on Apple or Google platforms at all, yet they do. They even went out of their way recently to release a native macOS app for Prime Video, something not even Netflix has done. If they wanted to dominate streaming music they wouldn't allow Apple Music to integrate and be the default option on Echo devices, yet they do. Eero routers are owned by Amazon. They are one of the few routers that supports Apple HomeKit security natively. Amazon now has their own Fire TVs. They support AirPlay 2 and HomeKit. Amazon is not even remotely hostile towards Apple.

Also, Bezos doesn't own 20% of Rivian -- Amazon does. But even if he did what kind of phone do you think he uses? It's not a 2014 Amazon Fire phone, I can guarantee you that. He has no issue picking his battles. Space race, AI, web services, retail, and smart assistants. I'd be willing to bet significant money Bezos hasn't said a word either way about CP/AA in Rivian vehicles.

 

[Monkey]

I take it that Rivian's infotainment system is based on QNX?

Either QNX or Linux, but pretty sure it's QNX... Have not got my hands on it personally and I have not seen any specific reports from the perspective of what their infotainment is built on. QNX seems the logical choice since it's the go-to in the auto industry and has been for a long time. Since Blackberry has acquired it and refined their licensing bundles, they practically hand it to automakers in a nice package all set up with the usual goodies. Basically just need to code the connections to the respective hardware controls and sensors and slap a graphics interface on it.

They could have picked Linux and built a more specific platform from the ground up as Tesla has done. And maybe they have. That would explain the lack of a lot of the expected features and things that are being slowly added in, like visible TPMS.

 

[Ladiver]

WOW, I am exhausted after reading all of this. For me it is simple...

I want to get in my truck, input an address, and have the navigation system get me there via the quickest route possible. Sometimes I am OK with paying tolls, so give me that information as well.

If Rivian can do this better than a crowd-sourced app (Waze), then I will be content (What about charging? Well, there are apps for that too!). If not, then screw the Rivian nav and let me use AA/CP! I will not pay for a subscription on a car, so hopefully, their nav can remain up to date, or they are no better than the established manufacturers. Hell, at least GM only wants $100/year to update maps. What's the subscription cost for Rivian????

 

[jjswan33]

This is quit the discussion but mostly irrelevant. My I remind you of 4 word, Jeff Bezos owns 20%. There is no way on Gods green earth Bezos is going to allow CarPlay or Android in a Rivian Period. And as far as a home-brew Rivian solution ever being "better" not going to happen either. In fact I would be disappointed if they spent there engineering talent on that area. They have a few vehicle areas to catch up on first. So it's Pretty much what you see today, with a few bug fixes and a few new features added painfully slowly , is what you will get. Sorry.

What you are describing would get Amazon in a lot of trouble with the SEC. Example: Windows/Apple giving preference to Google search.

 

[Dbeglor]

From a different point of view, offering CP/AA frees them to produce the best native system they can by not wasting time reinventing the wheel. AA/CP allow Rivian to concentrate on core

WOW, I am exhausted after reading all of this. For me it is simple...

I want to get in my truck, input an address, and have the navigation system get me there via the quickest route possible. Sometimes I am OK with paying tolls, so give me that information as well.

If Rivian can do this better than a crowd-sourced app (Waze), then I will be content (What about charging? Well, there are apps for that too!). If not, then screw the Rivian nav and let me use AA/CP! I will not pay for a subscription on a car, so hopefully, their nav can remain up to date, or they are no better than the established manufacturers. Hell, at least GM only wants $100/year to update maps. What's the subscription cost for Rivian????

Apps for charging don't pre-condition the battery when you've routed to a charging station. NAV really is a different beast in an EV, and I use the native exclusively even though I have the option of CP because it's just better for a variety of reasons. I also use the native Amazon Music app vs. the one in CP, because the CP version is locked down and doesn't allow full access to music and stations. This is all with a system that I think will be inferior to what Rivian will produce.

It's $550/year, but more than just data. The data is probably 40% of that number based on what standalone data plans cost, and the rest gives you free charging at RAN, roadside support, access to their private land and other events, and enhanced vehicle features that are to be developed in the future (Launch Mode is one that was mentioned).

Even if they allowed CP/AA I think many people would still sign up for the membership. I pay more for much less with Audi. I pay about $700/year for what amounts to just data services.

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