Can we be honest with each other - what benefit does a Rivian have over upcoming EVs?

[Zoidz]

Just putting this here. R1T would benefit from having a 5’ bed. Both for adventure and for work.

Depends on the target market. Longer bed means longer wheelbase and longer overall length. That makes it less attractive to serious off roaders and rock crawlers, people with small garages, and people who parallel park on city streets. I want to think that they "right sized" it for tehir target market.

Sponsored

 

[moosehead]

Depends on the target market. Longer bed means longer wheelbase and longer overall length. That makes it less attractive to serious off roaders and rock crawlers, people with small garages, and people who parallel park on city streets. I want to think that they "right sized" it for tehir target market.

See many other mid sized pickups and OR kitted vehicles: Tacoma, Ranger, Gladiator, even the Honda Ridgeline.

A 4'6" bed is too short to be functional for even skiis and bikes. If the target market is the mall crawler crowd, then I stand corrected (I kid, I kid).

 

[Zoidz]

A 4'6" bed is too short to be functional for even skiis and bikes. If the target market is the mall crawler crowd, then I stand corrected (I kid, I kid).

I'm not arguing your point, but again I point to target market - everything is a compromise in some way. Rivian addresses this by offering an extensive rack system for the truck to haul skis, bikes, kayaks, surfboards and eveything else. I have a 5 foot bed on my Avalanche and have never put the bikes in the bed. I use a receiver mounted bike rack.

 

[Dark-Fx]

See many other mid sized pickups and OR kitted vehicles: Tacoma, Ranger, Gladiator, even the Honda Ridgeline.

A 4'6" bed is too short to be functional for even skiis and bikes. If the target market is the mall crawler crowd, then I stand corrected (I kid, I kid).

Did you miss the front page of the Rivian website for like a year before the recent redesign? Bikes fit just fine in the Rivian with a tailgate pad.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

See many other mid sized pickups and OR kitted vehicles: Tacoma, Ranger, Gladiator, even the Honda Ridgeline.

A 4'6" bed is too short to be functional for even skiis and bikes. If the target market is the mall crawler crowd, then I stand corrected (I kid, I kid).

The Tacoma Double Cab Short Bed is immensely popular, despite it's short bed. The time where bed length matters to most is with tailgate down, and the Rivian has a novel approach to solving that problem. They simultaneously deliver a vehicle that maximizes interior volume in a given overall length while also having a longer supported bed length with the tailgate down. Carrying lumber is likely to be a better experience in the Rivian than in the Tacoma, for example.

It's a win for people who don't like the prospect of full size trucks.

 

[moosehead]

My only point is that 60" is typical short bed and mid-size truck bed dimensions for versatility and cargo reasons, yet still can provide optimal approach and departure angles for OR, especially with R1T max clearance. R1T shorter bed is why we went to R1S. IME, it will appeal to a smaller target customer and a slightly larger 60" bed would broaden utility considerably, yet still allow easy urban street parking.

Our most adventurous outings are towing a camper or boat, with bed fully packed under a locked tonneau, and bikes on the racks above the bed. We have also used both hitch racks and bikes over the tailgate, but those are typically one day, one activity outings.

Did not intend to insult anyone or hit a soft spot. Carry on, pun intended.

 

[ePower]

I do a lot of off road driving and of all the great features of the R1S, ground clearance is what sets it apart from all the other EV’s coming to the market (except the Hummer Ev). I don’t want to have to climb a ladder to get into a truck/SUV like I see is necessary on some of the jacked up ICE trucks around. Getting “down” to 8 inches is just right and 15 inches will get me over all the terrain I want to drive on.

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[Pherdnut]

R1S pre order holder Sept 1st, 2021 and long time lurker of these forums but never registered/posted.

As we see more large EVs get announced, what benefit does a Rivian have over them? The main thing Rivian had going was being first by a long shot, but now it's all close together and the vehicle tech is still the same.

What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....

For me:

* Suspension and motor per wheel factor are huge. I don't "need" either of these and have never been off-roading outside of the test course at Last Mile, Normal, but I just think they're incredibly cool features for a sub-100k vehicle and hope to actually take proper advantage of them on road trips to NM and Colorado. Also, given that times have been a bit uncertain, I like the idea of of a truck that handle hell and high water should it ever be time to GTFO wherever I'm at. If these unique performance factors don't really matter to you, I could see why you'd rather wait for a cheaper mid-size SUV BEV.

* Tech-wise, the algos driving those 4-motors are what I'm excited about. Adaptive cruise control is plenty for me on the self-driving side of things. I don't really care that much about the UI as long as it's decent and I can use the freaking windshield wipers without having to take my yes off the road. Plenty of ways to have games and movies without it being integrated into the vehicle's UI screens.

* Great to drive on and off road appeals hugely to me. The high ratio of Mclaren engineers on the R1s' earlier stages of development also hugely appeals to me.

* I really like Rivian's design eye. I think the trucks look great. Interior is gorgeous and I'm happy to report very comfortable/well-arranged. It just feels good to be sitting inside an R1T. Like exactly enough room and well-appointed to be perfectly comfortable, I could spend a lot of time hanging out with a laptop in an R1T while charging at free L2 in the city.

* The modular racks and tunnel on the R1Ts are really cool details. As is being able to plug just about anything in to the truck at the frunk, trunk, and interior.

* It doesn't exceed my city size-tolerance. Just big enough to be good at what it needs to be good at.

* The battery size required is compelling. It's a lot of juice for use at wherever your destination may be that's not going to take a huge toll on miles.

* It's not legacy and it's not Tesla. I think the Model S is a great car, and I get that not all Tesla owners have been affected by this, but the QC and service corners they tend to cut whenever it suits them bugs me. And when it comes to minimalism in interiors, there's a line you cross where it's really just cheap. Also, Rivian's been a little dodgy with their dates lately but nowhere near as ridiculous when it comes to making timing promises they couldn't have hoped to achieve.

* They are targeting off-roaders. Service and reliability are naturally going to be huge priorities for them.

* These trucks will likely be selling for a lot more in 2-3 years and I like being among the first to adopt, even if that means suffering a likely power tonneau headache and other minor early adopter issues.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Except for those that might find their adventures hampered by the decrease in departure angle resulting from the longer bed.

And anyone with a standard (not oversized) garage or who parks in city parking structures or on streets downtown.

 

[mkg3]

... What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....

I too have a reservation for R1S and currently own Tesla Model 3. R1S will replace our 2018 Outback, not the Model 3. We'll be only EVs and we are not tree huggers, which will be apparent below.

After doing bit of search on specs and technology that goes into Rivian, I wouldn't say that they are "lacking", but it is not with the latest and greatest. That, btw, is not a bad thing when considering the entire ownership experience.

The biggest thing for us is that Rivian will have their own distribution channel and service centers. When you buy a car/truck, the dealer makes significantly more money from service of the vehicle than a single sale event.

All the ICE legacy mfgs (including all the hype for new EV's by GM, F, VW, Toyota, Honda and so on) HAVE TO keep the dealer viable. As such they MUST included requirements for regular service intervals to maintain warrantee.

EV's are the lowest cost to operate and maintain vehicles. Our Model 3 with 32k has had NO maintenance actions (changed cabin air filter myself). Just replace a set of tires (had some miles left but wanted to replace it with better tires). That's it.

There is no 12K, 24K, 30/36K type of maintenance required. Yet, when I looked into other EVs, they all require service, just like regular vehicles. While some included the first two years, but why? EVs simply does not require it. Legacy manufacturers have to keep the dealers propped up or loose distribution channel.

Also buying experience without the dealer hassle is WONDERFUL. We've used Costco auto purchase program for several vehicles over the years but you still get hassled with ups and extras that you need to keep declining multiple times, not to mention the finance manager wanting to sell you extended warrantee. NO THANK YOU.

We ordered on Tesla website, much like Rivian's. No price haggling, simple delivery and done..

As for Lucid, Fisker, Faraday Future and all the others, it seems to me that, they do not have the infrastructure part of the equation under control. They are relying on other entities to take care of those important items. Rivian, OTOH, like Tesla, has taken this on - Great. This would be in addition to the other infrastructure that otherwise will build up.

When you look at the total picture (purchase, operations, maintenance and your time of inconvenience), both Tesla and Rivian (I believe based on their intent) comes out to be one of the lowest TOTAL Ownership Costs compared to their respective peers.

YMMV, cheers!

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[lazjen]

Even with these delays, let's assume some other manufacturer's announce a vehicle that more closely matches the specs of the R1S or R1T. They're not going to be ready at the time of announcement. We're in a period of time where there's going to be significant lead times for almost everything. So assuming Rivian gets things starting to roll, increasing production and delivery, they'll still most likely be getting vehicles to people while competitors are doing their ramp up (design, dev, testing, etc).

Another issue to consider: demand (for EVs) is much higher than supply at this time, so for consumers, the more competitors in this space, the better to help deal with the demand, reduce lead-time and hopefully help keep prices under control.

I suspect there's actually a potential market opportunity for someone to do 2nd hand vehicle conversions to EVs - I know that's available now, but it's generally too custom and not an efficient repeatable process to do decent volumes.

 

[Trekkie]

I suspect there's actually a potential market opportunity for someone to do 2nd hand vehicle conversions to EVs - I know that's available now, but it's generally too custom and not an efficient repeatable process to do decent volumes.

Near as I can tell Ford sees that as a huge market since they've already released crate motors and are going to release entire systems to allow for these conversions. Looking forward to seeing what the first folks do with those vs findind wrecked teslas to hack parts off of it with no support

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

I suspect there's actually a potential market opportunity for someone to do 2nd hand vehicle conversions to EVs - I know that's available now, but it's generally too custom and not an efficient repeatable process to do decent volumes.

I had a thought that opening a shop specializing in this could be a strong business if you were able to tap into the giant money cannon that the Federal government is pointing towards "green" transportation. That said, I think you'd have to be very specialized with the vehicles you worked on because it's a very complex process. The other issue is that there isn't a good off the shelf battery solution.

I'd love it if someone opened a shop like that focused on older off road vehicles (jeeps, older trucks, 4 runners etc). I'd probably pay around $20k to convert my 98 XJ if I could get 250/250, dual motor 4WD, and 200 miles of range.

Sponsored