Can we be honest with each other - what benefit does a Rivian have over upcoming EVs?

[Dbeglor]

But I'm starting to not see the benefit of paying 90 grand for a max pack R1S when by the time it arrives there will be multiple 7 seat SUV options with 800v architecture, more tech, and 300+ mile range for the same price or a bit less.

It remains to be seen on the tech front. 800v architecture in the case of Hyundai/Kia, but the rest of the tech will be far inferior. I would not expect OTA updates or UI/UX to be anywhere remotely on the same level. Also, driving dynamics will be leagues apart.

Rivian ADAS has WAY more potential than what the legacy makers have, although Hyundai/Kia are market leaders in that department among legacy makers. It won't be much different to start, but it will get better whereas the Hyundai/Kia will stay the same as you get out of the box.

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[zipzag]

800v is not much of an issue for most EV owners. Higher initial charge rates still have the taper to protect the cells.

Faster charge rates matter in the future so that EV owners who can't charge at home can have more of a gas station experience when "filling up". But for maybe the 98% of Rivian owners doing home charging the small real world difference between 250kW and 350kW is trivial.

I don't see the core tech so much adding benefit in the future, but becoming less expensive. It's steady software improvement that will continue to to add owners benefit.

We don't know yet how Rivian will do in software compared to competitors.

 

[Gimmeoneofeach]

Personally it's as much a styling issue as it is anything else. Yes, I will off-road occasionally and performance is important but not the only factor. I have a owned various Land Rover models for 25 years (current 1993 NAS Defender #49/500 and '22 Defender 110 models) and I just love the sensible straight-forward rugged but refined styling. However I really want to get into the EV space and the Rivian checks all the boxes. Literally every other electric SUV/Crossover/Truck (F150 excluded) I see being announced look all the same with their futuristic angular styling. Not a fan.

 

[Babbuino]

I think the main selling point of the R1S specifically is the possibility of going off road or on road without losing performance and maintaining a level of luxury. The other options at this moment or near future are CUVs.

 

[Zool]

I'd say it comes down to four things.

1 ) Offroad prowess. I have an old and crappy but indestructible Landcruiser 200 and our daily ride is a 2019 Soul EV. The Kia is a totally uninspiring ev but it's still the best car I've ever owned, simply due to the drivetain. I see the Rivian as a magical merging of the vehicles we have now.

2) Escaping the dealership model. I want to burn my Kia dealership to the ground. They destroyed any possibility of selling me an EV6.

3) The Adventure Network. It's nothing more than a promissory note at this point, but dedicated, reliable infrastructure (a la Tesla) will be a boon to us down the road. Down the road, get it?

4) It isn't a Tesla. Elon is such a knob I wouldn't want to make any him richer, and all his cars look the same.

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[atlastracer]

The reason I pre-ordered the R1S in 2018 when it was unveiled was primarily size. Our 4th was due in a few months. 4 kids + 2 adults means we need a 3 row SUV that is actually 3 rows. We have tried to fit in a Model X and it's not going to work with a stroller or suitcases. We currently drive a 2015 Honda Pilot. The "boxy" shape of it is what we love about it.

To this day - the R1S is *still* likely to be the first true 3-row BEV SUV that hits the market. I'm interested in seeing what Kia actually puts on the road for the EV9. Or what VW's 3row will look like.

However the more I've followed Rivian and the more I've seen the capabilities. The more I wanted the R1S for the off-road abilities as well as the size. So much so that we placed a pre-order for the R1T in August to replace our Tesla model 3. While the R1T won't fit the whole family any more than the Model 3 does now. But we recently moved to a (very) rural house - and having a truck for hauling stuff has quickly become a popular idea in the house. Looking at the prices of the Lightening in Canada - I decided an R1T will be smaller and more "city-like" for us and still do what we want...and for similar prices.

I've also become a huge fan of Rivian (as a company). I would have already gone to work for them if they were willing to hire a fully-remote principal engineer (i'm only 2 hour ferry ride from one of their dev offices). But they are not (yet) allowing fully-remote workers. But I am all-in on Rivian now after following them for 3 years. So I doubt even if VW or Kia hit the market with a 7/8 seater BEV first - I doubt I'd change my plan (3 years ago - sure).

 

[Zoidz]

As we see more large EVs get announced, what benefit does a Rivian have over them?

What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....

I *need* the towing capacity of the Rivian, I have several trailers that when loaded are 6,000 lbs+. All the brands above that you mention don't even come close. The only close to production competitor is the F150 Lightning. I'm not spending $110k+ for the Hummer, and the CT realistically is 2 - 3 years away, (and it's ugly).

I *want* 800 hp.

I don't *need or want* the latest battery/tech. Battery/tech is going to change constantly, everything will be old tech in 2 -3 years regardless of who makes it.

 

[ja_kub_sz]

1. 4 Motors, each wheel having one! All four Motors is a big advantage. Torque vectoring better handling, Etc.

2. The rivian skateboard design. I find it funny how all these EV manufacturers are still hovering around 100 kilowatt battery packs, with the GMC Hummer being the exception. The bulk of these batteries are purchased for third-party manufacturers, so all you're doing is taking somebody else's batteries and arranging them in a pack, with minor adjustments otherwise. Rivian has a platform to specifically accommodate more batteries, it sounds trivial, but why hasn't everyone else done it?

3. Their overall business model and direct sales. The old ossified ways of dealer networks, and mass production of cars that are then just sitting out there waiting to be sold, not already bought, is archaic and the majority of customers hadn't had good experiences for many years considering such.

4. Value! Rivian is selling a $77,000 truck, this truck is faster than both Ford Mustang Mach E GT performance and a Tesla Model y performance. Not to mention the vehicle is larger, more luxurious, better designed, far more capable, and above all else extremely practical. All of this for I kid you not the exact same sticker price. Just watch the Edmunds review of those two electric vehicles and I almost laughed out loud thinking I can get a pickup truck that tows 11,000 lbs and has a hydraulic air suspension with multiple Drive modes for the same price as those two vehicles.

5. Lack of competition in its segment. The r1t it's such a unique product, I feel it has a greater reach then other full size electric trucks, or evan a midsize Electric SUV. I've had a Ford F-150 platinum and the ruby in this far nicer, again it drives better, goes more than the electric Ford, has a greater range, and when it's all said and done will be the same price and or cheaper than a fully-loaded F-150 Platinum lightning. Massively large trucks are historically underutilized, just like full-size luxury sedans again where undercut buy a midsize Model S. So the size based utility of the vehicle wasn't necessarily what drew people to the product line, I think Rivian hit the nail on the head with it sizing of the r1t. Just ask yourself how many full-size half-tons do you see in Australia, China, the middle east, Europe? Big trucks only have one audience and that's in the US, Rivian has the entire world to make its stage

5. Skateboard platform source sharing. Rivian has developed a product that other people are going to want to tap into in the way of Amazon delivery vehicles, and who knows what else. They will be able to manufacture their own distinct valued products, while still being able to tap into other revenue streams by sharing their platform technology. That seems to be a great way to generate Revenue outside of traditional consumer EV sales.

6. Originality. Lastly rivian is not one ofthe pre-established auto brands. And you absolutely know it when you see it. Again I think people have ultimately grown disinterested, and aren't necessarily looking for conventional anymore when it comes to their vehicles. Everyone at some point or another has had a poor experience with a major Automotive manufacturers, a great deal of people are looking something new and distinct. Rivian is just that, I'd even argue that they put their own spin on things to the effect of actually having very utilitarian products which are well design vs. Tesla who sometimes just does things to be strange and weird such as yoke steering wheels, Gullwing doors, and Cyber trucks.

I apologize but I voice texted this all while on my car. ?... not a rivian yet

But again go watch the Edmonds Mustang and model y head-to-head comparison, and then remember the r1t cost the same exact amount.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

1. 4 Motors, each wheel having one! All four Motors is a big advantage. Torque vectoring better handling, Etc.

I think that some people really don't have an appreciation for the difficulty involved in programming the controller for the quad motors to get the driving dynamics that these vehicles have. By all accounts they knocked it out of the park, which is a massive accomplishment and I'm not expecting Kia/Hyundai to come anywhere close to that regardless of what their battery architecture and motors are capable of.

 

[hola29]

Ummm...Well, to start its a full size SUV. It also has 805hp. It also has 4 motors for tracking in rain, snow, sand, rocks. It also has (what I have heard) amazing on-road performance.

I have seen nothing, even on the horizon, close...

R1S pre order holder Sept 1st, 2021 and long time lurker of these forums but never registered/posted.

As we see more large EVs get announced, what benefit does a Rivian have over them? The main thing Rivian had going was being first by a long shot, but now it's all close together and the vehicle tech is still the same.

What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....

 

[McMoo]

I think that some people really don't have an appreciation for the difficulty involved in programming the controller for the quad motors to get the driving dynamics that these vehicles have. By all accounts they knocked it out of the park, which is a massive accomplishment and I'm not expecting Kia/Hyundai to come anywhere close to that regardless of what their battery architecture and motors are capable of.

It’s amazing they did it but most people buying cars don’t know or care about 0-60 or quad motors. Rivian is targeting an enthusiast with their R1 vehicles. Economically it would have made sense to have 2 motors and 5 second 0-60 but they needed to have something unique with their first offering, which they seem to have done. And the value is incredible after the tax credit. They are taking a bath on each one sold to gain market share. It’s an amazing vehicle but at the end of the day they will have to make money.

 

[Rob Stark]

Couple of thoughts reading through thread.

Tesla was correct to go after full size truck market. It is the cash cow of GM, Ford, and Stellantis. It forces them to respond, electrify or go broke. Just wish Tesla hadn't mooned traditional full size truck buyers with the styling of the Cybertruck.

Rivian is correct to go midsize FIRST. Go were they ain't. A startup should go for the white space. Later compact SUVs and pickups. A Maverick sized Rivian would be awesome. Then full sized SUVs and pickups. An electric Land Rover market position doesn't justify a $100B market valuation nor 1M run rate in 2030.

99% of Jeep owners don't need nor ever use their full off-road capability. Buyers of 2030 model year Rivians will be the same. And Rivian will make money hand over fist selling them too.

Hummer/EV9/Bollinger have angular styling. Cybertruck has triangular styling

The reason you don't see full size trucks outside North America is the price of gasoline/diesel. If Tesla offers the Cybertuck I think it will do quite well in rural Europe, Australia and China. GM will start selling ICE Sierras in South Korea. If they do reasonably well I am sure Cybertruck can do quite well.

Don't mind making Elon richer. He is using wealth to colonize Mars, not buying tropical islands to fill with bikini babes.

 

[AxelR]

I agree Rivian they hit the target on size, price and features. Importantly it is size right for upscale suburban/urban buyers. The F150 and the Cybertruck are too big. The Suburban, Excursion, and Escalade are bigger than perhaps 90% of families desire.

Rivian is damn lucky that Tesla decided on the Cybertruck design. Few potential buyers will be torn between the two vehicles. There's a huge gap in Tesla's lineup between the Model Y and the Cybertruck.

I guess that gap is filled by the model X…

I’m one of the ones considering both. CT and R1T. Technically I’m cross shopping it with the Raptor as well (got an old preorder for R1T, recent for CT, and 2 orders for a Raptor).

 

[LeoH]

Since I do not go "off road" and all that stuff, let me tell you why I still have an R1S 7-seater on order. (Sorry for the repetition, most have already been mentioned)

1- A True 7 seater that is actually smaller than its ICE competitors given the space inside and cargo.
2- Quad motors theoretically make the vehicle handling better, hence safer.
3- Suspension, that is rarely talked about. It was designed by the same team who designed the McLaren suspension. It's extremely stable, does not sway, and the ride feel luxurious in a way, unlike Tesla.
4- Looks. It looks more or a less like a vehicle with practicality in mind. All those future 7 seater Ev look ugly and have all these impractical concept ideas. The Kia? Hyundai? or that Canoo? They all look like a defected transformer had a baby with an old volvo station wagon.


5- Most of all, I drove the R1T ( which I imagine is similar to the R1S ) and abused it on a wet track, it did not budge an inch, did not slip, felt extremely safe, and surprisingly very comfortable!


Now, if Lexus or Toyota came up with a decent looking 7 seater before I get my R1S, I'll jump. Otherwise, I waited since mid 2019, I will wait another year or 2

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