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Can we be honest with each other - what benefit does a Rivian have over upcoming EVs?

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I currently drive a BMW X3M competition because I'm a speed demon and an outdoor enthusiast. An R1S with air suspension, up to 15 inches ground clearance that can also be lowered, hydraulic roll control, >800 hp, more space than my X3, and same mileage per "fill up" at half the cost sounds like a big win to me.

I've had two flats from rocky fire road driving and would love to not have to worry about the terrain when I'm getting out in the wild. The power sounds great but will probably be only a smidge faster than my X3M as I expect the HP to weight ratio won't be substantially better. No matter, it will certainly still hit mid/high 11s in the 1/4 mile and highway accel will be superb.

The Ford Lightning is too big for me and I don't want a truck. The Cyber Truck is same situation and years away. The Hummer has a stigma I don't want, it looks stupid, and will be too expensive. Everything else is a crossover and not really off road capable. So despite the Rivian having poor efficiency, it's gonna be the one for me.
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CGM55082

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My reasons are pretty simple. I love my Model 3, but one of my priorities is interior quality, fit and finish -- as well as a smooth and quiet ride. Being electric, the driving dynamics of the 3 are awesome, but the interior fit and finish is not where Tesla invested. I want a more luxurious interior and quality I can feel, all in a solid and quiet riding platform. That I can have those things along with a higher and more upright seated position, makes the R1T a versatile winner for me.
 

ads75

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I like that the Rivian is quick, comfortable, and can go off road (even though I doubt I would take it off road). I like the size. In 30 years of driving, I've never really needed a truck, but I am leaning towards the R1T. I like the R1S, but don't really need the passenger space either (no kids, no dog). I was eying some similarly priced ICE sports cars to get, but was hesitant to spend $75kish on a vehicle I can't drive 4 months out of the year. I do not think the Rivian is absolutely perfect, but it does check the most boxes. If there was a something similar to a 2 door Wrangler but EV, with decent range, I might go that route instead, but there isn't. Or maybe a nice AWD sports car EV with a similar price range. (also, no experience with them, but Tesla does not seem like its for me)

With the Big Three all coming out with EV trucks soon, I would also expect them to do SUV variants as well. Curious to see if they keep with the large SUVs over time, because it will be hard to hit the price points with the tax incentives, even though the tax incentives should only last so long. Supposedly GM Ultium platform can be scaled up or down, I believe its the basis of both the Hummer and Cadillac Lyriq, two different vehicles (I also have a reservation for the Lyriq, which I probably will pass on for the R1T). I am not sure The Big Three will produce smaller trucks for sometime, since demand for the larger ones will keep them busy enough. Smaller may also steal sales from the larger, higher profit trucks.

I also like Rivians internet purchasing. Last vehicle I bought, 2019 Jeep Wrangler, I ordered and configured exactly how I wanted, was great purchase experience from the 2nd dealer I went to. But I had to go to a 2nd dealer. That was my best purchase experience so far. These days, if you have time to wait, you should be able to go online and pick exactly what you want, without having to compromise on dealer stock, or listen to a salesperson go talk to their manager about your price.
 

ironpig

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I have a model S and a Toyota 4 Runner. I also have an old land cruiser and my partner has a Prius but she's likely getting the polestar.

The perfect vehicle for my day to day life is an electric Toyota Tacoma. The Rivian is an upscale version of that. If another manufacturer was offering a similar package, I'd be just as interested. But The F-150 Lightning is bigger than I need/want and that's the only other EV truck until Chevy delivers theirs.

Right now the only "benefit" that Rivian has is availability. There will be several electric trucks (still probably not the cyber prop ....) in a few years. They will lose their advantage. They will need to compete by delivering the best user experience. That's why they are trying to be the Patagonia of EVs and not the Old Navy.
 

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R1S pre order holder Sept 1st, 2021 and long time lurker of these forums but never registered/posted.

As we see more large EVs get announced, what benefit does a Rivian have over them? The main thing Rivian had going was being first by a long shot, but now it's all close together and the vehicle tech is still the same.

What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....
Choice is an illusion in current EV market. You can’t choose your vehicle because it does not exist. Most of them are a potential at best. So I would reserve anything you consider a good possibility and re-evaluate when your number is called. By the time your R1S spot is called, there will be a lot more info available that may either solidify your commitment to R1S or push you in a different direction pending how good of a match they are to your needs, wants and values.

I think Rivian is overkill for most of us. If you are always on paved roads, a vehicle with half the battery, half the price and twice the efficiency makes more sense but I doubt you made the reservation because it was a sensible choice. If you are like me, you watched the videos and thought it looks like this is going to make me happy. You are asking everyone to give you reasons to justify how you feel. If you are hooked, what your brain pretends to do is irrelevant unless something else comes along and gets you hooked. Rivian knows this too. They have spent years perfecting the design, the suspension and the software but all you see in their videos are smiling people and nothing technical. They already got you, it is easier to just accept it and move on ;)
 

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ironpig

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I think Rivian is overkill for most of us. If you are always on paved roads, a vehicle with half the battery, half the price and twice the efficiency makes more sense but I doubt you made the reservation because it was a sensible choice. If you are like me, you watched the videos and thought it looks like this is going to make me happy. You are asking everyone to give you reasons to justify how you feel. If you are hooked, what you brain pretends to do is irrelevant unless something else comes along and gets you hooked. Rivian knows this too. They have spent years perfecting the design, the suspension and the software but all you see in their videos are smiling people and nothing technical. They already got you, it is easier to just accept it and move on ;)
Yeah agreed 100% on the idea of sensible choices..

It's like the people who keep asking the same concerned questions about range, but they have the truck configured with the off road tires. They want the off road look even if it saps 15% of the range. And I wonder how many will really go off road enough to the point that they need the AT tires?
 
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Yeah agreed 100% on the idea of sensible choices..

It's like the people who keep asking the same concerned questions about range, but they have the truck configured with the off road tires. They want the off road look even if it saps 15% of the range. And I wonder how many will really go off road enough to the point that they need the AT tires?
This will shake out over time. Consider how many people get pickups and rarely use them to carry anything. How many buy four wheel drive vehicles as you say and barely use them off road. But the allure of Rivian is to persuade us to change our ways, by dipping into the outdoors with the best camping kitchen at your finger tips — in a vehicle that doubles as a sports car. It’s electric, but tough, not fragile, and versatile. Men and women are going to like this optionality. When cheaper Rivian options are available this will settle the deal for many.
 

ironpig

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This will shake out over time. Consider how many people get pickups and rarely use them to carry anything. How many four wheel drive vehicles as you say barely use them off road. But the allure of Rivian is to persuade us to change our ways, by dipping into the outdoors with the best camping kitchen at your finger tips — in a vehicle that doubles as a sports car. It’s electric, but tough, not fragile, and versatile. Men and women are going to like this optionality. When cheaper Rivian options are available this will settle the deal for many.
I take my 4Runner up to our cabin and most of my Offroad travel is dirt fire roads etc. Nothing crazy. I have KO2 tires on it, but I often wonder if I should just put road tires on for the increased mileage for the 95% of the time I drive on smooth pavement in Southern California. I'm seriously considering just going with the 21 inch road tires on the Rivian even though the truck will see some mild dirt action. The increase in range for the majority of road travel is the more sensible choice.
 

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Yeah agreed 100% on the idea of sensible choices..

It's like the people who keep asking the same concerned questions about range, but they have the truck configured with the off road tires. They want the off road look even if it saps 15% of the range. And I wonder how many will really go off road enough to the point that they need the AT tires?
The AT tires are also decent snow tires, so some will choose them just for that purpose even if they aren’t used off-road a lot.

For me the most compelling and sensible reason to get the R1T is not only is it great off-road, but it’s great on-road. So being on pavement 99% of the time still makes the R1T a great choice. The value proposition is definitely high.
 

Chris S

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Yes, I agree most don't "need" the capability. But Rivian is a lifestyle brand, and the "image" will matter to many buyers, regardless of how they'll actually use the vehicle.
Agreed. Look at the % of Jeep Wranglers that never go off road.
 

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driving an f150 hybrid right now. Electronics are great. wireless apple CarPlay and Sirius xm implementation is perfect. Sound system very good. Massaging seats surprised me with utility and comfort on long trips. onboard power in bed is very useful around my large yard with looong driveway. Going to be very hard to give all this up. I was very surprised at how much I like this truck and how comfortable it is. 24-26 mpg on 91 octane around town which is awesome for a full size pick up. Easy to Think about trading it in for a Platinum trim Lightning which I may be able to get before the R1T. I thought I would have the R1T long before the lightning. Now it’s going to be a choice between the two.
 

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Just putting this here. R1T would benefit from having a 5’ bed. Both for adventure and for work.
 

ironpig

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driving an f150 hybrid right now. Electronics are great. wireless apple CarPlay and Sirius xm implementation is perfect. Sound system very good. Massaging seats surprised me with utility and comfort on long trips. onboard power in bed is very useful around my large yard with looong driveway. Going to be very hard to give all this up. I was very surprised at how much I like this truck and how comfortable it is. 24-26 mpg on 91 octane around town which is awesome for a full size pick up. Easy to Think about trading it in for a Platinum trim Lightning which I may be able to get before the R1T. I thought I would have the R1T long before the lightning. Now it’s going to be a choice between the two.
The F-150 Lightning will definitely be a better overall value, has dealer support and it has better towing controls etc. I have a reservation on a Lightning too, but for me it comes down to size and design. The Rivian being smaller is helpful to me in LA traffic. And I like the Rivian styling better.

But a Platinum Lightning is going to be one awesome truck.
 

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It may not matter for your needs/use-case, but Rivian seems to be focused on "adventure" and all-terrain capability. Most of the upcoming EVs aren't competing in that space.

Using ICE vehicles as a comparison, how do Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Ford, Chevy, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Volvo, Acura, Lexus, Kia, Hyundai, etc all exist when there is so much overlap in functionality between them? People build loyalties. People have opinions on styling, comfort, pricing, performance, or whatever other characteristic they care about -- even when the difference appear small to others (or are objectively small).

There's enough demand to support a lot of brands. I think there WILL be consolidation in the EV space. Some newcomers will fail. Some will get absorbed by other brands. But there is room for many.
The streets in some of our cities require an all terrain vehicle ? (kinda)
 

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R1S pre order holder Sept 1st, 2021 and long time lurker of these forums but never registered/posted.

As we see more large EVs get announced, what benefit does a Rivian have over them? The main thing Rivian had going was being first by a long shot, but now it's all close together and the vehicle tech is still the same.

What I mean is, the Rivian tech both internally and battery is lacking in comparison. I don't NEED 800+ HP, it's just fun to have. If Fisker had a 7 seater I'd reserve it right now and cancel my Rivian. The production version Ioniq 7, Kia, etc are all superior tech, battery capacity, charging, and for the same or less money....
Kind of the same thing happened with the Chevy Bolt. It was the first affordable long range EV to hit the market. Didn't take long after that for competition to release similarly priced vehicles, but for that initial period, the Bolt really was the only option if you didn't want to spend 60 grand on a car.

Any EV you can buy today will be outshined in 3-5 years by upcoming tech. If what you're buying today doesn't work for you the way you need it to, then you either need to wait it out, or buy something else.
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