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California | Real-world experience driving in R-1/R-2 road conditions…?

Forager

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My personal rule is that once my vehicle requires chains, I’m turning around. I’ve been in the mountains on forest roads where I got stuck and chains got me out, if I’d continued on and gotten stuck again I would have been SOL. Chains are my backup/get out of jail card. On normal roads, if I need chains with my 4WD and 3PMSF setup, I’m staying home or getting a hotel.

There is a lot of good advice in this thread. The only thing I will add is that anyone considering travel through mountains in winter should have at least one pair of chains, regardless of tire type whether they intend to use them or not. For example, Mt Rainier NP requires them in the car from October to April/May, even when roads are clear, because conditions can change so quickly.
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Tatnai

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Thread hijack warning, more for the non Cali people that have a full winter:

I grew up in Toronto, Canada, have lived in the Midwest most of my adult life and now live in Minnesota. I snowboard, and trip to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado regularly. I am 40 years old.

I spent most of my years driving FWD cars with all season M+S tires (understand, M+S designation is not a certification; they are not required to be tested, so snow traction is quite variable). I can drive in snow fine with all season tires, didn't care or want or need AWD or snow tires. Drove a range of cars - Jetta, Mazda 3, Nissan Quest.

In 2011, I bought my first AWD vehicle (2005 Honda CR-V AWD). Traction difference in snow was notable, could feel less tire slipping in conditions where I knew I would slip in a FWD car. In 2014, I bought the second (2010 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD, which I still drive). I think the AWD is a little better on the pilot, and the weight difference makes it drive like a tank in the snow. I drove Michelin defenders on both vehicles, great tires.

In 2017, I bought my first dedicated winter tires for both AWD vehicles (my ex-wife drives the CR-V). Bridgestone Blizzaks. Honestly, the difference between a winter tire and my M+S tires was greater than the difference between a FWD and AWD vehicle in snow. In my Pilot, in all but the worst conditions I can drive almost like I would on a dry road, the traction is that good. I did a Big sky Jackson Hole road trip this year with them, and went through a snowstorm in Montana through a mountain pass; drove confidently the whole way through. It doesn't just help in snow, helps on ice too, as they are softer and stickier at low temps. Most importantly, snow tires increase your stopping traction significantly, AWD doesn't do a thing for that.

I am writing all this to say, highway requirements are what they are, yes, follow them. I can drive good m+s tires in most conditions safely, and I don't need AWD or snow tires. But, a good snow tire makes a WORLD of difference in winter driving. If you want added safely, use them. I can't say enough good things about them. I do wonder, however, how a true snow tire will wear on a EV with all that torque and soft rubber; just drive it gently, I suppose.

California people coming from SF and other warmer places can't run a soft snow tire in the winter, once pavement is above 40 degrees they will wear super fast. I would guess the OEM AT is your best bet to cover both scenarios and have added traction. The OEM AT won't be as soft as a true dedicated snow tire, but should be way better than any M+S tire.
 

ajbrutman

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From my experience in CA, they tend to lean towards requiring chains. Sometimes with 4wd and snow tires they let you through but require you have them and later can request you put them on.

It was different for me as well coming from New England and never even owning a pair of chains. We used to ski in Vermont and New Hampshire all the time without requiring them.

My suggestion, if traveling in CA buy a pair and have them with you going to the mountains. If you have to buy them there they will be expensive, that I know from experience.
This has also been my experience, I have a house in Big Bear and they really don't even let you go up the mountain in heavy snow conditions without chains.
 

R1Tr8000

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Thread hijack warning, more for the non Cali people that have a full winter:

I grew up in Toronto, Canada, have lived in the Midwest most of my adult life and now live in Minnesota. I snowboard, and trip to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado regularly. I am 40 years old.

I spent most of my years driving FWD cars with all season M+S tires (understand, M+S designation is not a certification; they are not required to be tested, so snow traction is quite variable). I can drive in snow fine with all season tires, didn't care or want or need AWD or snow tires. Drove a range of cars - Jetta, Mazda 3, Nissan Quest.

In 2011, I bought my first AWD vehicle (2005 Honda CR-V AWD). Traction difference in snow was notable, could feel less tire slipping in conditions where I knew I would slip in a FWD car. In 2014, I bought the second (2010 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD, which I still drive). I think the AWD is a little better on the pilot, and the weight difference makes it drive like a tank in the snow. I drove Michelin defenders on both vehicles, great tires.

In 2017, I bought my first dedicated winter tires for both AWD vehicles (my ex-wife drives the CR-V). Bridgestone Blizzaks. Honestly, the difference between a winter tire and my M+S tires was greater than the difference between a FWD and AWD vehicle in snow. In my Pilot, in all but the worst conditions I can drive almost like I would on a dry road, the traction is that good. I did a Big sky Jackson Hole road trip this year with them, and went through a snowstorm in Montana through a mountain pass; drove confidently the whole way through. It doesn't just help in snow, helps on ice too, as they are softer and stickier at low temps. Most importantly, snow tires increase your stopping traction significantly, AWD doesn't do a thing for that.

I am writing all this to say, highway requirements are what they are, yes, follow them. I can drive good m+s tires in most conditions safely, and I don't need AWD or snow tires. But, a good snow tire makes a WORLD of difference in winter driving. If you want added safely, use them. I can't say enough good things about them. I do wonder, however, how a true snow tire will wear on a EV with all that torque and soft rubber; just drive it gently, I suppose.

California people coming from SF and other warmer places can't run a soft snow tire in the winter, once pavement is above 40 degrees they will wear super fast. I would guess the OEM AT is your best bet to cover both scenarios and have added traction. The OEM AT won't be as soft as a true dedicated snow tire, but should be way better than any M+S tire.
Totally agree with all your wisdom and experience, it matches mine.
Pure snow tires equate to really big risk reduction. Over a full winter for those of us dealing with it, real snow tires greatly reduce chances of going off the road, hitting another car, causing injury - and avoiding higher insurance premiums and deductibles. I too can drive as if on dry roads way, way more easily while still maintaining a greater margin of safety with the snow tires. One other point: the Pirelli Scorpion Plus AT on my 4Runner Limited - while it has /meets the 3PMSF requirement - is simply no match for the Blizzaks I use in winter; AND after just one year (just 7 month summer season of use) the AT tire in snow is degraded that much further from new.
So for those planning to use the AT for somewhat frequent snow, ice use…at least be open to needing to replace it - for snow use - after 1 or 2 yrs of year-round use.
Please be careful and smart out there. ?
 

TessP100D

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On CA state highway, they’ll check your tires and ask to install chains if you drive a sedan or this type of cars. Most Jeeps and trucks with off-road tires are waived through - however you must have a set of fitting snow chains. The 20s AT offered by Rivian have the snow peak symbol and will be fine in most conditions in CA. We’ll just need to find chargers…
Ahh the chargers. That’s the mystery.
 

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TessP100D

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This has also been my experience, I have a house in Big Bear and they really don't even let you go up the mountain in heavy snow conditions without chains.
Mountains in the summer. desert in the winter. No chains required. Lol
 

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I have never been asked to chain up in CA. When I lived in the Bay Area and made winter trips to Tahoe, they always just waved the Outback through assuming it had at least M/S tires.

When I drove our converted 170" WB Sprinter (~8500 GVWR) in the area, I thought sure they'd be sticklers for the weight and make me chain up, but the CalTrans guy made eye contact, held up 4 fingers, and I confirmed by holding up 4 fingers back. Waved me right through. That heavy van with 4WD and winter tires was a beast -- we were driving circles around the crossovers with all seasons (and of course hopping out with the shovels to help).

If you get into an accident and weren't technically in compliance, CHP might cite you. But they're usually so busy dealing with spin outs and fender benders when it snows to spend too much time enforcing the 6000 GVWR thing (which I have never seen on any actual signage just buried in the CVC itself). If it's commercial, the experience may be different (they spend a lot of time every winter clearing semis that lost control).
 

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Thread hijack warning, more for the non Cali people that have a full winter:

I grew up in Toronto, Canada, have lived in the Midwest most of my adult life and now live in Minnesota. I snowboard, and trip to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado regularly. I am 40 years old.

I spent most of my years driving FWD cars with all season M+S tires (understand, M+S designation is not a certification; they are not required to be tested, so snow traction is quite variable). I can drive in snow fine with all season tires, didn't care or want or need AWD or snow tires. Drove a range of cars - Jetta, Mazda 3, Nissan Quest.

In 2011, I bought my first AWD vehicle (2005 Honda CR-V AWD). Traction difference in snow was notable, could feel less tire slipping in conditions where I knew I would slip in a FWD car. In 2014, I bought the second (2010 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD, which I still drive). I think the AWD is a little better on the pilot, and the weight difference makes it drive like a tank in the snow. I drove Michelin defenders on both vehicles, great tires.

In 2017, I bought my first dedicated winter tires for both AWD vehicles (my ex-wife drives the CR-V). Bridgestone Blizzaks. Honestly, the difference between a winter tire and my M+S tires was greater than the difference between a FWD and AWD vehicle in snow. In my Pilot, in all but the worst conditions I can drive almost like I would on a dry road, the traction is that good. I did a Big sky Jackson Hole road trip this year with them, and went through a snowstorm in Montana through a mountain pass; drove confidently the whole way through. It doesn't just help in snow, helps on ice too, as they are softer and stickier at low temps. Most importantly, snow tires increase your stopping traction significantly, AWD doesn't do a thing for that.

I am writing all this to say, highway requirements are what they are, yes, follow them. I can drive good m+s tires in most conditions safely, and I don't need AWD or snow tires. But, a good snow tire makes a WORLD of difference in winter driving. If you want added safely, use them. I can't say enough good things about them. I do wonder, however, how a true snow tire will wear on a EV with all that torque and soft rubber; just drive it gently, I suppose.

California people coming from SF and other warmer places can't run a soft snow tire in the winter, once pavement is above 40 degrees they will wear super fast. I would guess the OEM AT is your best bet to cover both scenarios and have added traction. The OEM AT won't be as soft as a true dedicated snow tire, but should be way better than any M+S tire.
I didn’t experience winter tires until I bought my first set in 2007 or so. I will never drive on a regular M+S all season in winter again. It’s absolute night and day, especially in starting and stopping.

Of note, “performance” oriented winter tires(higher speed rating, most often) tend to do better in warmer temps and with more powerful vehicles.
my parents have a Tesla model S, using pirelli sottozero winters. For a big, heavy car with lots of power, they do Quite well in terms of wear.

I have a focus RS, which came with Michelin pilot alpin winter tires. I anticipated replacing them with Nokians, but they did so well I put on another set when they wore out. Much better in warmer temps(southern BC in February for example) than something like a typical H rated studless snow tire.

Also the newer “all weather” all seasons many brands now sell, carrying the severe service emblem, are, in my estimation 90% as good as a dedicated winter tire. Including all terrain tires with the severe service/3pmsf emblem.

The pirelli ATs should be pretty good in winter. It’s what I’m going with, vs an m+s all season tire and a second set of winters. I’ve used Goodyear duratracs and BFG ATs, etc in winter on SUVS and trucks, and they’re damn close to a winter tire.
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