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Article: Charging The Electric Rivian R1S Was More Expensive Than Filling Up Some Notorious Gas Guzzlers

Rivian Owner

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Say what? My parents had two V8 vehicles when I was a kid. One was the family car and the other was a 3/4 ton truck. Both got much more than 8 to 10 mpg and both had fuel tanks with 25+ gallon capacity. We'd do road trips upstate to relatives 400 miles away without stopping for gas. This was in the 1970s.
And what year vehicles are you talking about? I may be older than you. I remember when people would hang a canvas bag filled with water in front of the radiator to keep the engine from overheating, if that gives you an idea of my vintage.

I had a pickup from the 80's that had some of the first throttle body fuel injection and really low compression, that thing was lucky to get 10 mpg, and just about 150 hp as I recall. The mileage was so bad on it, Chevy put two gas tanks in the thing. In the 60's 10 to 12 mpg was typical, but then you were paying around $.025/gallon for gas. Oh yeah and for that price they cleaned your windshield!
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RivianRiverRat

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And what year vehicles are you talking about? I may be older than you. I remember when people would hang a canvas bag filled with water in front of the radiator to keep the engine from overheating, if that gives you an idea of my vintage.
I have one of those bags - a Minnequa Flax Water Bag made by the Pueblo tent and Awning Co.
 

Thedude

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The article author is an obvious putz. A true comparison would be driving the Rivian and gas guzzler on the same road at the same time, etc, etc. Even charging at 50 or 60 cents it's cheaper than gas. Normal people with EVs know this. But savings over gas is actually a minor benefit of driving an EV. The author thinks everyone is stupid, I suppose. Drive well.
That math doesn’t work. My R1T at 1.8mi/kwh at highway speed and 0-100% charge nets me 235 miles and costs $52/65/78 (at 40/50/60cents). My 3500 diesel gets 20mpg on the highway, fuel costs $3.60 so driving the same 235 miles costs me $42. If charging at home it’s obviously far cheaper in an EV but that wasn’t the discussion in the article.
 

SANZC02

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That math doesn’t work. My R1T at 1.8mi/kwh at highway speed and 0-100% charge nets me 235 miles and costs $52/65/78 (at 40/50/60cents). My 3500 diesel gets 20mpg on the highway, fuel costs $3.60 so driving the same 235 miles costs me $42. If charging at home it’s obviously far cheaper in an EV but that wasn’t the discussion in the article.
Diesel average in CA today is 4.84 so that 235 from CA would cost you $56
 

140 degrees

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Many good points made here, but IMHO, the current Rivians aren't really the best choice if you are trying to minimize driving cost. You can pick up a used EV sedan for much lower cost of ownership if that is your priority. The Rivians ARE a good choice for me because I care more about Smiles/Mile than MPG.
 

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s4wrxttcs

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Electric vehicles restrict your freedom compared to gas cars. That is truth. Unfortunately gas is killing the planet, so sacrifices must be made. Rivian lies about EPA range by including the city mileage number in the blended result, which doesn’t help. Legally, they can do it. Ethically, it is confusing. The range number should be all highest at 70 MPH, in slightly cold weather.
The EPA rating is the lie.

It's not specific to Rivian.

For Real Range I typically go off the 70mph number which I get from user reported ranges. I never trust the EPA number as that's a blended range and not what I care about.

Specially I use the 80% where I assume a 90% charge and 10% reserve.
 

s4wrxttcs

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Now compare MY to a RAV4 Hybrid. Comparable cars and Rav4 probably has more expensive interiors with real controls and less cost cutting all around.

Rav4
39 mpg combined.
Gallons to drive 10000: 256.4
Cost at $4 per gallon: 1025.6
Base price with 10% sales tax: 35090

I will go with your numbers for MY
Cost to drive 10000: 360
EV fees: 250
Base price with 10% sales tax: 48389

Yearly savings with MY: 414

Price difference: 13299
Break even: 32 years

Now let's add 7500 tax credit and not everyone is even eligible for it.
Price difference: 5799
Break even: 14 years

In the real world and over 10 years, I don't expect Tesla to get 3.5 mi/kw or RAV4 to get 39 mpg. However Toyotas are known to get 10% less while Tesla's are known to get 25% less. I don't want to go into the real world, because it's too complex and numbers are hard to come.

This also assumes that the initial 5799 earns no return/costs nothing to finance, which is not true.
The Rav4 Hybrid is below the average selling price of vehicles.

I used the Model Y as its close to the $50K average price of vehicles.

For the Rav4 you don't even really need to compare it against EV's as you can compare the three offering (gas, hybrid, plugin) and see which one fits your use case the best.

Where the Rav4 Plugin (the prime) likely has the cheapest running cost (assuming home charging), but the most expensive purchase price.
 

s4wrxttcs

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It’s very simple

EVs are wonderful commuter cars if you have a charger at home; nothing comes close.

For long road trips, they are not a great option apart from those with lots of time & patience on their hands.
I think its too use-case driven to make any rules about it.

For commuters cars they are great if you have charging at home. But, if you have charging at work then that works too.

Any reasonably long range EV will exceed the range of my girlfriends bladder. So if I'm going to stop every 200-250 miles then I might as well have an EV. As long as I can charge up in 15-20min then I'm good to go.

The Rivian is probably not the best choice because of its relatively terrible efficiency. But, its a good choice in other aspects.

By far the biggest challenge with EV's is charging while on a trip.

Specifically:

The reliability of chargers
The availability of chargers
The speed of chargers
The availability of bathrooms near the charger
The availability of food offerings near the charger.

With the Tesla adapter its made it so MUCH easier and with more Rivian chargers it makes it even easier.

With each year it seems to be getting easier.

It's gone a long ways since the days of panic when I missed an exit in my 2015 Model S when there was only one charger I could charge at where I was at.

I think I have less issues on the road charging then I do with my Diesel Camper Van. It really shouldn't be hard with the van but the universe finds ways to annoy me when trying to fill it up. Like only one stall has diesel and the person blocking it has gone off somewhere. Or the slow pumps. Sometimes its just trying to make sure it has the diesel I want and not one of hundred other types of diesel. Or making sure I have the correct hose for the diesel at a BP station which uses green for Gas.
 

George Kaplan

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One of the reasons gasoline prices are as they are is due to competition—the guy on one corner can’t charge $8.00/gal if the guy across the street charges $4.00/gal.

EV charging isn’t ubiquitous and demand frequently outstrips supply, so $0.66/kWh is going to happen. Plus, some of the locations are actually designed to make money, instead of just be a service to the shopper.

Different way of looking at this: I charged my R1T at home here in SoCal. Took it from 18% to 70%. That was 64 kW at $0.23/kW. The truck states that is 165 miles of range added. By my calculation, at $4.00/gal a vehicle would need 44 mpg to go the same distance on $14.80 of gas.

Possible? Absolutely. Possible in a comparably-sized pickup (let’s say a Ridgeline)? Nope. Possible in a 7,000 lb ICE vehicle of any kind? Go away, you’re just being ridiculous.

Every story can be spun, every headline can be slanted for clickbait.

Also: a blatant disregard for the tools available in the R1S. This supposed crisis about finding a place to charge makes it seem as if Rivian hadn’t gone to the trouble of placing an adventure network location right there on S. Las Vegas Blvd. The nav would have taken him there with no danger of running dry relative to the Treasure Island location, and probably reloaded the car faster as well. What do we suppose he was using Google Maps or CarPlay on his phone instead?
 

George Kaplan

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In the 60's 10 to 12 mpg was typical, but then you were paying around $.025/gallon for gas. Oh yeah and for that price they cleaned your windshield!
I suspect you and I are similar ages—I remember in 1973 when the pump price “exploded” to $0.49/gal.

But fun fact: $0.25/gal in 1964 is $2.55/gal today. So the price isn’t that much higher in 2024 in most parts of the country, but the gas station provides no service because they’ve trained us to “save money” through self-service.
 

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Rividiculous

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We are all subsidizing the ICE cars as they are contributing far more than EVs to climate change—and the public pays the price.

So, until there’s a price on carbon emissions, these price comparisons are in apples to oranges.
 

Doug

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I do not think this is a typical experience, I've been driving EVs for 10 years and I've never run into a free 180kw charger. The only free ones I've seen have been the 6kw kind that would take overnight to charge up the Rivian.

So I actually think this is an important subject the person has raised. Fast charging rates have sky rocketed to the point that in some cases makes them less affordable than ICE. Combined with registration fees that are bordering on punitive, it creates a disincentive in the market for people to transition to EVs.
I agree this is not normal to find a fast charger for free. Also as you and others have said if you just charge away from home and on trips the R1's are about the same or more costwise than an ICE. I would argue there are other factors than just cost as others have said. It is more fun to drive and better for the environment to name just a couple. On long trips our Toyota would be cheaper and quicker to get to our destination but not as fun to drive. I see you are from Iowa the charger in Akeny Caseys used to be free I believe but is not anymore. That is only 80kw charger though.
 

ThirteenElectrics

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This article is really silly. Of course you shouldn't buy an EV unless you can charge at home. DC fast charging in California is a shitshow--expensive, queuing for chargers, and even if you get one, it takes 10x-20x longer than a gas fill. It only makes sense if you can charge while you buy your groceries. DC fast chargers are for road trips and emergencies only.
 

ThirteenElectrics

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So, until there’s a price on carbon emissions, these price comparisons are in apples to oranges.
California already does have a cap and trade system for gasoline. That's where the article was written. Much of California's electricity still comes from natural gas, though, so the difference isn't as high as it could be.
 

ElGuano

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Electricity is high in CA. Much more than many people realize. Tesla superchargers are regularly $0.70+/kwh during peak hours (that's like, most of the day). My home electricity bill is >$0.45/kwh (though I'm not on the best rate for my usage rn).

It's bonkers out there. But that's life in a high cost of living locale.
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