Sponsored

Apple announces major updates to CarPlay

jjswan33

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
116
Messages
3,638
Reaction score
7,714
Location
Sandy, OR
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited
Occupation
Engineer
Clubs
 
Let's be clear, this new Car Play is not envisioned to be a simple complementary mirroring app like the current version. They were let in the gate, and now it's a complete replacement, end of story. Android Automotive is a little different in that makers can put their own "skin" on it, just like phones and android, but they will almost surely just ruin it like Samsung, etc. do. There is no future for OEM infotainment if Car play does everything already. The only reason they exist now is to provide things Car play can't. It's clear as day, insourced vs. outsourced are the two approaches of the near future. Outsourcers will be paying Apple to license CP 2.0 and won't be able to justify spending on a redundant and inferior internal service.

Yep, and those are all relatively "easy" things that will be added soooooon. I have complete confidence they will be added, because they won't be offering CP/AA as substitutes. I can do without #2 personally, as it would still only be voice transcription which I don't like using. #3 is nice for those that care/can tell the difference, but I'd imagine it's low on their priority list. #1 should be #1 on their list for UI software, it's the only/biggest glaring weakness currently.
For the record this is all your speculation and opinion based on a demo of potential features.. You have a right to it but I still say your wrong.
Sponsored

 

DJG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Threads
12
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
1,106
Location
TX
Vehicles
Various
For the record this is all your speculation and opinion based on a demo of potential features.. You have a right to it but I still say your wrong.
This entire forum is based on speculation and opinion, so that goes without saying :)

Fair enough, we'll have to come back in 5 years to check in. This story has already played out elsewhere so it's really not that ground breaking or speculative. Plenty of proud/great companies do nothing but make hardware to run other people's software and go about their business. That's probably the appropriate application for the lower end of the market anyway.
 

jjswan33

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
116
Messages
3,638
Reaction score
7,714
Location
Sandy, OR
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited
Occupation
Engineer
Clubs
 
This entire forum is based on speculation and opinion, so that goes without saying :)

Fair enough, we'll have to come back in 5 years to check in. This story has already played out elsewhere so it's really not that ground breaking or speculative. Plenty of proud/great companies do nothing but make hardware to run other people's software and go about their business. That's probably the appropriate application for the lower end of the market anyway.
Yep I am clamoring for the good old days when every car company had their own closed UI and they all sucked.

And for the record I tend to ignore most speculation and opinion on forums. Rather I like to see cool ideas and verifiable information from other users experiences.
 
OP
OP
swhme

swhme

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
404
Reaction score
832
Location
Maine & New Mexico
Vehicles
This field needs to be bigger, Iā€™m at 10 carsā€¦
Occupation
Nerd
Clubs
 
Now that I have the R1T, I'm even more against it having Car Play.
Iā€™m the opposite. Coming from Tesla where it would have been nice to have CarPlay but the built in mapping worked well, I figured it would be okay. But Rivianā€™s maps are the worst Iā€™ve ever had in a vehicle. They are worse than my 10-year-old cayenne. On par with my 17-year-old land cruiser.

they either need CarPlay or they need to pony up the bucks for google maps, because it is a total joke.
 

Sponsored

moosehead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2021
Threads
63
Messages
2,058
Reaction score
4,483
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
ā€˜22 Ioniq 5, ā€˜78 Jeep Wagoneer
Iā€™d pay extra for Car Play, a roof shade, working keyless entry system, snow mode, 60ā€ bed, and replacement Comms Group head.

No, really.
 

trez63

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2022
Threads
40
Messages
349
Reaction score
624
Location
SoCal
Vehicles
R1T, Gladiator, Porsche GT4, and a bunch of bikes
Clubs
 
Every single time this conversion starts all the opposition seems to be from people who either have no idea what CarPlay is, or those who have had a terrible implementation of it. The implementation in my Jeep is nearly flawless. It has never crashed or had any issues. Simply great UI and all my favorite apps and maps at my finger tips.
What Apple showcased today is next gen stuff that obviously is more CarUI than CarPlay, but they didn't say anything about a take-it-or-leave-it approach. I'm confident manufacturers can opt out of the deep OS layer and just opt for the app. And that's honestly all I want from RIVIAN. I don't want them to use Apple's OS. Just the App that extends the phone to the car.
And again, for the millionth time, if you don't want CarPlay or AA, then simply don't click on the icon that loads it and you can live in 2005 for as long as you like.

As it stands, the media features are way below par. Music is clunky, TuneIn is slow, buggy, and outdated at best. I don't have a Spotify account cause I use Apple Music and YouTube Music mostly but if spotify works well then I might just switch just to have something acceptable in the car.
 

AdamUCF

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
299
Reaction score
434
Location
Orlando, FL
Vehicles
June 2022 R1T

rodhx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rod
Joined
Jan 4, 2022
Threads
3
Messages
443
Reaction score
508
Location
Alabama
Vehicles
R1T, 03 IS300 5spd track/autox
I'm so tired of the argument that electric vehicles can't use carplay/android auto because of charging.
I've seen that concern but with the Mach E & CarPlay the latest Apples Maps reads the car's charge status and plans charging stops. Seems to work at least as well as the Ford system. I'm sure the Lightning will do it as well. Not sure if that capability has been picked up by other marques yet but do know my friend with an EV6 says it doesn't work for him.
 

DJG

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2022
Threads
12
Messages
1,006
Reaction score
1,106
Location
TX
Vehicles
Various
Iā€™m the opposite. Coming from Tesla where it would have been nice to have CarPlay but the built in mapping worked well, I figured it would be okay. But Rivianā€™s maps are the worst Iā€™ve ever had in a vehicle. They are worse than my 10-year-old cayenne. On par with my 17-year-old land cruiser.

they either need CarPlay or they need to pony up the bucks for google maps, because it is a total joke.
To be specific, it's the traffic/routing that you think needs improvement? Because the baseline quality of the maps themselves I find to be better than anything I've seen (coming from Audi which has hands down the best maps of the legacy brands, using Google).

They are not going to add CP and they may or may not switch to Google. They made a decision to use MapBox and it was for a reason (customization is my guess). I don't think it's going to be appropriate to judge the state of their maps for another couple years. At that point they/we can assess where they are versus the competition, but right now is too early. I have a suspicion that Google would be harder to layer in off-road trail mapping, which may be easier in the application they chose and something they will want to add. I've seen a video of an earlier build that did show trails.
 

Sponsored

R1T7777

Well-Known Member
First Name
CaliSurfer
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
273
Reaction score
253
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf
Occupation
Propagandist
Now that I have the R1T, I'm even more against it having Car Play. If I wanted this future version of Car Play, I'd buy an increasingly commoditized product from one of the makers on the list in the article that are buying in to it as a way to say they have no interest in software development of their own. The end of that road leads to a bunch of Apple cars that utilize Ford/Honda/etc. mechanicals, losing any connection they have with the customer along the way. This was inevitable, Apple is now taking over the entire user experience in a comprehensive way, and the helpless legacy auto makers are lemmings going over a cliff. It puts them on a path to merely being a supplier in the industry (drivetrains and bodies), while Apple provides the most valuable part.

The more makers that sign up for this version of Car Play, the better it is for Rivian and Tesla, because they will attract the rest of the market that doesn't want an Apple Car that 75% of the rest of the world drives.
Would 100% avoid any car that has this CarPlay built in. The last thing I want is the sticky hand of Apple reaching me through my car. Give me open source Android Automotive any day, where OEs can customize the UX and it's compatible with all devices. The closed ecosystem model and the practice of trapping customers has pushed me away from Apple. I have no interest in seeing them ruin the auto industry like they ruined communication.
 

R1T7777

Well-Known Member
First Name
CaliSurfer
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
273
Reaction score
253
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf
Occupation
Propagandist
Let's be clear, this new Car Play is not envisioned to be a simple complementary mirroring app like the current version. They were let in the gate, and now it's a complete replacement, end of story. Android Automotive is a little different in that makers can put their own "skin" on it, just like phones and android, but they will almost surely just ruin it like Samsung, etc. do. There is no future for OEM infotainment if Car play does everything already. The only reason they exist now is to provide things Car play can't. It's clear as day, insourced vs. outsourced are the two approaches of the near future. Outsourcers will be paying Apple to license CP 2.0 and won't be able to justify spending on a redundant and inferior internal service.

Yep, and those are all relatively "easy" things that will be added soooooon. I have complete confidence they will be added, because they won't be offering CP/AA as substitutes. I can do without #2 personally, as it would still only be voice transcription which I don't like using. #3 is nice for those that care/can tell the difference, but I'd imagine it's low on their priority list. #1 should be #1 on their list for UI software, it's the only/biggest glaring weakness currently.
The idea of a bunch of cars with the same cartoonishly bad Apple UI is a pretty depressing dystopian future.

Rivian definitely should have used Android Automotive though, unless they plan on quickly rolling out more apps (map routing on phone transferred to vehicle, Netflix/YouTube/prime video, voice to text, Chrome etc.). I like that they are doing their stuff in house only if they can provide comparable levels of quality and options.
 

timesinks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2020
Threads
6
Messages
570
Reaction score
1,851
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
R1T, ID.4, Sprinter
I'm so tired of the argument that electric vehicles can't use carplay/android auto because of charging.
Even if the Apple/whoever implementation isn't great and the vehicle's nav is better when requiring charging, that is less than 1% of my drives. Most days, I leave home with 70% and come back having traveled less than 100 miles where I plug in again. 99+% of the time, what I need from my nav is good routing, up to date turns, and traffic optimization for a dense urban region and I don't even think about SoC or charger locations. Rivian's system has nothing on Waze/Google/Apple for that use case.

And even when charging, they still don't have out-and-back or waypoints, so for most trips, you're still going to want to run a plan in ABRP. They also are missing tons of charging networks. Would be great to toss ABRP or Plugshare onto the screen using CarPlay.

I know their software is new and that it will get better. Some day, it may even be better than all these alternative apps people want access to via CarPlay. But it's not better today.

When Apple launched Apple Maps, I didn't use it. I continued to use the competing products that I could access from their app store. Eventually it got good enough that now I do use it sometimes.

CarPlay (and AA) is easy access to table-stakes features that many owners are clambering for. It doesn't preclude Rivian building a kick-ass OS that outshines the from-the-phone experience. But it takes the heat off for the next 3-5 years until they get it together. And yes, I expect their nav to be largely subpar for at least 3-5 years given where it's at today. It takes time to build these things and add these features, and they're going to have plenty of competing priorities like future vehicle launches, the RAN launch, etc..

Would 100% avoid any car that has this CarPlay built in.
Your Chevy Bolt has CarPlay built in. If your Leaf is 2018 or newer, it also has CarPlay. Did you avoid those vehicles because they support CarPlay?

You probably didn't even notice because you're not required to use it unless you want to. This is all any of us are asking of Rivian.

No auto manufacturer is going to require its buyers to also have an iphone. While this next-gen could project to all the screens in the car, there will be no more need to actually use it than there is today.
 
OP
OP
swhme

swhme

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Sep 12, 2021
Threads
31
Messages
404
Reaction score
832
Location
Maine & New Mexico
Vehicles
This field needs to be bigger, Iā€™m at 10 carsā€¦
Occupation
Nerd
Clubs
 
To be specific, it's the traffic/routing that you think needs improvement? Because the baseline quality of the maps themselves I find to be better than anything I've seen (coming from Audi which has hands down the best maps of the legacy brands, using Google).

They are not going to add CP and they may or may not switch to Google. They made a decision to use MapBox and it was for a reason (customization is my guess). I don't think it's going to be appropriate to judge the state of their maps for another couple years. At that point they/we can assess where they are versus the competition, but right now is too early. I have a suspicion that Google would be harder to layer in off-road trail mapping, which may be easier in the application they chose and something they will want to add. I've seen a video of an earlier build that did show trails.
More than half the time it either doesn't have the address I'm looking for or puts it in the wrong place.

I've worked with both the MapBox and Google APIs-- the reason to choose MapBox is $$$. Google is significantly more expensive for API access.
 

R1T7777

Well-Known Member
First Name
CaliSurfer
Joined
Oct 7, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
273
Reaction score
253
Location
Los Angeles
Vehicles
Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf
Occupation
Propagandist
Even if the Apple/whoever implementation isn't great and the vehicle's nav is better when requiring charging, that is less than 1% of my drives. Most days, I leave home with 70% and come back having traveled less than 100 miles where I plug in again. 99+% of the time, what I need from my nav is good routing, up to date turns, and traffic optimization for a dense urban region and I don't even think about SoC or charger locations. Rivian's system has nothing on Waze/Google/Apple for that use case.

And even when charging, they still don't have out-and-back or waypoints, so for most trips, you're still going to want to run a plan in ABRP. They also are missing tons of charging networks. Would be great to toss ABRP or Plugshare onto the screen using CarPlay.

I know their software is new and that it will get better. Some day, it may even be better than all these alternative apps people want access to via CarPlay. But it's not better today.

When Apple launched Apple Maps, I didn't use it. I continued to use the competing products that I could access from their app store. Eventually it got good enough that now I do use it sometimes.

CarPlay (and AA) is easy access to table-stakes features that many owners are clambering for. It doesn't preclude Rivian building a kick-ass OS that outshines the from-the-phone experience. But it takes the heat off for the next 3-5 years until they get it together. And yes, I expect their nav to be largely subpar for at least 3-5 years given where it's at today. It takes time to build these things and add these features, and they're going to have plenty of competing priorities like future vehicle launches, the RAN launch, etc..



Your Chevy Bolt has CarPlay built in. If your Leaf is 2018 or newer, it also has CarPlay. Did you avoid those vehicles because they support CarPlay?

You probably didn't even notice because you're not required to use it unless you want to. This is all any of us are asking of Rivian.

No auto manufacturer is going to require its buyers to also have an iphone. While this next-gen could project to all the screens in the car, there will be no more need to actually use it than there is today.
I'm referring to the update from WWDC where CarPlay takes over the entire vehicle. My Bolt has compatibility with CarPlay, but the processing is taking place on a phone. I don't have to have my whole car Applified, and can instead use Android Auto.

Android Automotive is a much more flexible and open source version of what the new CarPlay is trying to be. I much prefer the open source option as well as the ability for OEMs to pick and choose services and customize AA to their liking. I also like that it's platform agnostic.
Sponsored

 
 




Top