Anyone else completely disappointed that MaxPack battery not available until 2023?

[SeaGeo]

Rivian is offering a rescue service, all I'm gonna ask is how this service will be implemented.

I bought a car from a Land Rover dealer that's 90 miles away from my house, which is basically the nearest dealership with the sole stipulation that they would personally come to me to pick up my car for service appointments and they've held true to that.

Maybe Rivian would be willing to do the same (come to me should there be a range issue)? Rivian partnering with mobile service vehicles that have a 240v generator on them would be a huge help. All they have to do is send somebody your way plug your car in for 2 hours on a generator while you're at work, and problem solved. Something like this would really go a long way in restoring the confidence in people who placed orders for Max packs, and now will probably be encouraged by Rivian to switch over.

After all Rivian doesn't want to scare off 20% of its pre-order holders correct?

VW does this. I *think* I saw a recovery service like this as part of one of Rivian's services... perhaps the subscription?

edit: Yep. The membership has "charge assurance"
https://rivian.com/experience/membership

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[kizamybute']

Those are all great points, but maybe a bit excessive in your estimate. Again, you're right about those loss points but maybe overstating the drops. Alaska being a possible outlier?

I had my Model S and with the extreme Illinois cold weather and leaving my EV outside for half the time I still would hit about 65% max range (I had 21" wheels and my 90D was rated for 275 miles) which real world was about 175 miles.

The R1T should get (I hope) 200+ miles in those same worst case scenario situations. And for most 200 miles is totally acceptable, for me I'm honestly going to be pushing the envelope.

I agree, his/her estimates are a bit exaggerated. Would really have to be the worst of the worst possible conditions and aggressive driving thrown in (unlikely if the conditions are that bad) for it to only get 100 miles in range. Maybe towing.

An EV isn't going to be for everyone. Those in the coldest of climates and that regularly travel distances over 150 miles, an EV probably isn't the best choice right now. Not just a Rivian, but any EV. And this is one of the reasons why EV's still make up less than 5% of all vehicle sales. That and charging time sacrifices. If you're in Alaska or Canada, but are like most, and travel less than 100 miles per day on a regular basis, then an EV is worth it.

Likewise, for those that need to tow long distances on a regular basis, EV's aren't practical just yet. Especially if you need to tow and are in a cold weather environment. We're probably 10 years away from EV charging times being less than 10 minutes for 300-400 miles in range, which is probably about where we need to be before most will be willing to give up their gas vehicles.

For those of us fortunate enough to be mid climates and regularly do trips less than 500 miles, EV's are GREAT!

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

as others have noted, you're tripling up, and you're making assumptions about the highway range that may or may not be true (hence we need a range test).
[/QUOTE]
Not sure what you mean about tripling up? Hopefully I didn’t double or triple count the same thing. I do take the points of others that the real world hits in conjunction may not be so severe. 150 to 200 mile range in cold weather would be entirely acceptable to me.

 

[SANZC02]

Seems a lot of people are forgetting the Motortrend Trans-America Trail run was done with the 135 battery pack so clearly the setup is not useless.

 

[godfodder0901]

Seems a lot of people are forgetting the Motortrend Trans-America Trail run was done with the 135 battery pack so clearly the setup is not useless.

I think you may have gotten that mixed up with last year's Rebelle Rally.

Edit: I brain farted. @SANZC02 was absolutely correct.

 

[emoore]

I think you may have gotten that mixed up with last year's Rebelle Rally.

why is that?

 

[SANZC02]

I think you may have gotten that mixed up with last year's Rebelle Rally.

They used it as well but the TAT was done on the large pack, read down 7th paragraph.

https://www.motortrend.com/features...ve-drive-review-trans-america-trail-off-road/

 

[godfodder0901]

They used it as well but the TAT was done on the large pack, read down 7th paragraph.

https://www.motortrend.com/features...ve-drive-review-trans-america-trail-off-road/

You were absolutely right. With Rivian removing references to the kwh ratings of the batteries (opting for Max and Large designations) I must have had a brain fart. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[SeaGeo]

as others have noted, you're tripling up, and you're making assumptions about the highway range that may or may not be true (hence we need a range test).

Not sure what you mean about tripling up? Hopefully I didn’t double or triple count the same thing. I do take the points of others that the real world hits in conjunction may not be so severe. 150 to 200 mile range in cold weather would be entirely acceptable to me.
[/QUOTE]
All Terrain tires: -12.5% 60+ mph speed: -10%+ Rain or snow on road: -20% Cold Weather (10*F): -20%+ HVAC: -10% Heat in winter: -15% to -30% Standard Driving (80% charge): -20%

Primarily heat and HVAC. And then tonsome extend heating is mixed with cold weather. All things equal, going from 60f to 10f increases the air density by about 11%. Assuming the battery starts warm, and tires are properly inflated that's the major source of difference I can think of. So 20% for *just cold weather* seems a bit high, and closer to what you'd expect when accounting for some heating (assuming things start off warm).

Hvac/heating are really a time function and not speed function as well. So a heater will use X amount of energy over an hour whether yours sitting still or driving 100 mph, so adjusting range is a but less straightforward.

Coincidentally I was playing with the energy usage on my ID.4 the other day, and with HVAC off it was pulling <0.5kw. With the heater on it went up to around 2.4kw. Assuming the R1T has a bit bigger heater and it pulls 3 to 3.5 kW, that's closer to a 7 or 8% hit from heating, assuming the heater is running continuously and you're driving 70mph. Conversely, if we are putzing along at 20mph, the heater may reduce the range by 30+% if it were running continuously. But, at the same time, the density if air doesn't matter as much in when you're going slow.

A big killer for range is starting off with a cold battery.

 

[SeaGeo]

You were absolutely right. With Rivian removing references to the kwh ratings of the batteries (opting for Max and Large designations) I must have had a brain fart. Sorry for the confusion.

I think they ended up using the large pack for rebelle as well. The original plan was a max pack, but I think they ended up sticking with large.

 

[cmiller]

Use the heated seats to keep you warm and lay off power sucking vents to keep you warm. They always say that heated seats are far more efficient then using the heater in the car

 

[Rivian_Hugh_III]

Not sure what you mean about tripling up? Hopefully I didn’t double or triple count the same thing. I do take the points of others that the real world hits in conjunction may not be so severe. 150 to 200 mile range in cold weather would be entirely acceptable to me.

All Terrain tires: -12.5% 60+ mph speed: -10%+ Rain or snow on road: -20% Cold Weather (10*F): -20%+ HVAC: -10% Heat in winter: -15% to -30% Standard Driving (80% charge): -20%

Primarily heat and HVAC. And then tonsome extend heating is mixed with cold weather. All things equal, going from 60f to 10f increases the air density by about 11%. Assuming the battery starts warm, and tires are properly inflated that's the major source of difference I can think of. So 20% for *just cold weather* seems a bit high, and closer to what you'd expect when accounting for some heating (assuming things start off warm).

Hvac/heating are really a time function and not speed function as well. So a heater will use X amount of energy over an hour whether yours sitting still or driving 100 mph, so adjusting range is a but less straightforward.

Coincidentally I was playing with the energy usage on my ID.4 the other day, and with HVAC off it was pulling <0.5kw. With the heater on it went up to around 2.4kw. Assuming the R1T has a bit bigger heater and it pulls 3 to 3.5 kW, that's closer to a 7 or 8% hit from heating, assuming the heater is running continuously and you're driving 70mph. Conversely, if we are putzing along at 20mph, the heater may reduce the range by 30+% if it were running continuously. But, at the same time, the density if air doesn't matter as much in when you're going slow.

A big killer for range is starting off with a cold battery.
[/QUOTE]
Super helpful. Thank you

 

[ads75]

Seems a lot of people are forgetting the Motortrend Trans-America Trail run was done with the 135 battery pack so clearly the setup is not useless.

Still took them 43 days, with different people completing different legs of the journey. And I think they said they stayed at hotels multiple nights, where I am assuming they were able to charge up while they slept. I did a quick google search and some estimates for the trail are 3-4 weeks for motorcycles or Jeeps. But Motortrend does say they never ran out of power, so planning and time is required.

 

[Ralph]

Yeahbut you're not going to get 300 miles of range. When you factor in:

• All Terrain tires: -12.5%
• 60+ mph speed: -10%+
• Rain or snow on road: -20%
• Cold Weather (10*F): -20%+
• HVAC: -10%
• Heat in winter: -15% to -30%
• Standard Driving (80% charge): -20%

Not to mention the possibility of:

• Headwinds
• Excessive acceleration habit
• Battery Age

And you're left with... well let's see:

If you're driving AT tires, on the highway, in the rain or snow, in the winter, with the heat on, and it's a regular drive so you're using the 80% charge number, then your 314 miles of range becomes

(314 * (1-0.125) * (1-0.10) * (1-0.20) * (1-0.20) * (1-0.2) * (1-0.20)) = 101.28

101.28 miles per charge. And again, that doesn't take into account excessive acceleration, elevation changes, or headwinds. Of course it also doesn't take into account using the "Conserve Mode" which would make sense on long highway drives.

In any case, 300 miles becomes 100 awfully fast. When you're looking at 50 miles of roundtrip distance you might start thinking that the Max Pack makes a certain amount of sense.

And then if you tow.......

 

[Ralph]

They used it as well but the TAT was done on the large pack, read down 7th paragraph.

https://www.motortrend.com/features...ve-drive-review-trans-america-trail-off-road/

They also have noted in passing that Rivian added strategically located chargers for the trip. Can't find a link to that right now.

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