Anyone considering the Nikola Badger alternative?

ajdelange

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They are but they do produce some waste heat (as does a battery). I think the name of the game in fuel research is finding catalysts than don't use precious metals and allow the electron transfer to take place with less waste heat production.

But the point I keep trying to make and the basis for Milton's business plan is that it does not matter how energy efficient the drive train is but rather how cost efficient it is. If the $ per mile turn out to be lower than the $ per mile for diesel his plan is attractive to the trucking industry. The other aspect of interest is the lbs carbon per mile. If the energy used to make the hydrogen is clean then the tree huggers should be happy too.

On the cost of the hydrogen: I'm relying on memory here (which is a somewhat dangerous thing for me to do) but I believe his target is around $4 /kg. That brings him to parity or a little below re diesel and he thinks he can do that with 4¢/kw electricity.
 

CappyJax

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I am guessing that fuel cells have a higher efficiency than an internal combustion engine.
The efficiency of the HFC system in the Toyota Mirai is around 52% in cruise. Modern Gasoline engine vehicles are around 30% efficient. Modern diesel trucks, which is what we should comparing it to, are around 35%. All these number are efficiency at the wheel and consider drivetrain losses.

Also, a gallon of gasoline has 36kWh, a gallon of diesel is 40.7kWh, and a kg of hydrogen is 33kwh.

So, if we figure the cost per kW, applied to the wheels(Price per unit/(Total usable kWh X efficiency)) , based on an average cost of gasoline at $2.18 and diesel at $2.40, we get .20 for gasoline, 0.17 for diesel, and 0.80 for hydrogen. That makes hydrogen 4 times as expensive as gasoline, and 4.7 times expensive as diesel which comes out to equivalents of $8.72 for gasoline and $11.29 for diesel.

If we figure in $4/kg for hydrogen and run the numbers again, $2.50 for gas and $3.24 for diesel.

So, at $4/kg the only state hydrogen might be cheaper than gas or diesel is here in California.
 

DucRider

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On the cost of the hydrogen: I'm relying on memory here (which is a somewhat dangerous thing for me to do) but I believe his target is around $4 /kg. That brings him to parity or a little below re diesel and he thinks he can do that with 4¢/kw electricity.
And if he does find that 4¢/kwh electricity, his competition is BEVs as well as diesel. Charging /discharging batteries is far more efficient than any current fuel cell Technology.
Nikola trumpeted a major breakthrough in battery tech (and fuel cells), but then apparently went with GM tech for both. Read into that whatever your inclination (I see it as just another in a string of empty promises).
 

ajdelange

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I'm not inclined one way or the other - well, I haven't bought any of his stock or put down a deposit on one of his trucks.
 

CappyJax

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And if he does find that 4¢/kwh electricity, his competition is BEVs as well as diesel. Charging /discharging batteries is far more efficient than any current fuel cell Technology.
Nikola trumpeted a major breakthrough in battery tech (and fuel cells), but then apparently went with GM tech for both. Read into that whatever your inclination (I see it as just another in a string of empty promises).
Theranos sequel.
 

Godawgs

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Slightly off topic, but the book Bad Blood is a great page-turning read about Holmes and Theranos.
Didn’t read the book but listened to the podcast and you’re right. Really fascinating and sad at the same time!
 

ajdelange

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Coast2Coast

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This seems like the wrong move (but I'm no securities lawyer). If you're going to fight and you're not guilty, you remove yourself temporarily, not permanently. You don't resign. That seems an admission of guilt.

Resigning doesn't remove the company's involvement. Trevor was CEO, Chairman of the Board, and principal shareholder. The company's still liable, just as Trevor is. Or am I missing something?
 

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