Anyone considering the Nikola Badger alternative?

cohall

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Just curious who is actively considering the Nikola Badger as an alternative to the R1T, like I am?
https://nikolamotor.com/badger

I like the exterior styling a bit better, to be honest, but I like the R1T as well.

Additionally, Nikola is matching your pre-order deposit up to $5K towards the purchase price, and the starting price is already lower than Rivian's ($60K before deposit matching and tax credit).

As Rivian's lack of updates makes me believe that production is still a long way off, the Nikola is becoming a much more viable option as it enters production in 2022.

Is anyone else considering putting down a deposit on the Badger?
 

EyeOnRivian

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With the current (lack of) information available "today" there's no way I would give them money even if the deposit was $100.

Have you checked out Sean Mitchell's latest video?
 

DucRider

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Nikola has little to no credibility in my book. They have for many years been promising products that never materialize, they bounce between BEV, fool cells, trucking, ATVs, pickups, etc. I know people that were involved in the first (BEV) iteration of the semi prototype, and they relay stories that do not paint an optimistic picture.

Nikola has only renderings of their latest vaporware (the Badger) with no prototype (working or not).

They have no production capabilities and are on the hunt for someone to build their products for them. My prediction is that Rivian will be in full swing production before Nikola even has a working prototype to begin testing their design. If past history is any indicator, the first prototype they build will be able to drive onto the stage in December, but not do much more than that.

Wouldn't give them a dime.
 

thrill

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I listened to Nikola's interview with Autoline After Hours (I follow their audio podcast instead of the youtube channel) . I came away with mixed impressions. While the concept of using H2 for long haul is intriguing, as the CEO discusses on the show it's not cost effective for shorter range (<500 mile) trips, so having that in a pickup truck is really more of a technology demonstrator, and maybe makes sense if you happened to work in an area with refueling stations. That said, he does discuss that he's trying to presell the semi trucks to companies that do consistent known trips where it'd be cost effective to have H2 refueling stations at each end, etc. The thing that bothered me about the interview is the CEO comes across as someone who will easily, and rapidly, say things that make the project look good but without having done any homework that he can show. Cracking water to make H2 is already barely cost effective, and batteries continue to advance fairly rapidly all things considered, so my guess is it's a technology that won't quite make it, except perhaps where batteries simply won't do.
 

ElectricTrucking

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Just curious who is actively considering the Nikola Badger as an alternative to the R1T, like I am?
https://nikolamotor.com/badger

I like the exterior styling a bit better, to be honest, but I like the R1T as well.

Additionally, Nikola is matching your pre-order deposit up to $5K towards the purchase price, and the starting price is already lower than Rivian's ($60K before deposit matching and tax credit).

As Rivian's lack of updates makes me believe that production is still a long way off, the Nikola is becoming a much more viable option as it enters production in 2022.

Is anyone else considering putting down a deposit on the Badger?
Did you make a deposit? Lets move this over to the Nikola frorum.
 

RforRivian

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Nikola has little to no credibility in my book. They have for many years been promising products that never materialize, they bounce between BEV, fool cells, trucking, ATVs, pickups, etc. I know people that were involved in the first (BEV) iteration of the semi prototype, and they relay stories that do not paint an optimistic picture.

Nikola has only renderings of their latest vaporware (the Badger) with no prototype (working or not).

They have no production capabilities and are on the hunt for someone to build their products for them. My prediction is that Rivian will be in full swing production before Nikola even has a working prototype to begin testing their design. If past history is any indicator, the first prototype they build will be able to drive onto the stage in December, but not do much more than that.

Wouldn't give them a dime.

Spot on. I don't see many (if any) of the products they've promised making it to market. I think those that are buying up the stocks hoping for another Tesla-like company are going to be sorely disappointed.
 

skyote

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I like the exterior styling a bit better
I too like the styling, it looks tough. However, I agree with others that it's vaporware...or a long way out. No chance I would give them a deposit, especially not 5 grand!

Hat tip to the artist/designer though.
 

Jehorton

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I currently am watching both and I have put down a deposit, only $250. That being said it covers the cost of your ticket to Nikola world so that is something I want to go see as it is.
I want to say I’m surprised to see so many people dissing their company considering they too are moving in the right direction making a BEV to better the world. What is the issue here? Everyone has an opinion of the legitimacy of the company but these things won’t happen overnight. Just like Rivian starting years ago and have yet to sell one of their vehicles, it’s going to nikola time. What is the biggest issue here to people that don’t like them?
 

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Just like Rivian starting years ago and have yet to sell one of their vehicles, it’s going to nikola time. What is the biggest issue here to people that don’t like them?
They promise things they don't deliver, and are less than forthright on what they are showing to investors as working vehicles/technology.
The "fully functioning" fuel cell semi prototype didn't even have a fuel cell in it but was operating on an electric motor and small battery pack. They were able to claim it made a beer delivery from one warehouse to another, but they were only 2 miles apart.
They have no manufacturing facilities operational or even planned, but are taking peoples money based on computer generated images. They are counting on finding another company to give them more money for the privilege of building their design (once they actually produce one).
If you want to spend the $250 and see a show purely for the entertainment value, more power to you. It really isn't that much more than some other forms of live theater. Just don't expect to see something that is going to be a real product.
 

RforRivian

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I want to say I’m surprised to see so many people dissing their company considering they too are moving in the right direction making a BEV to better the world. What is the issue here? Everyone has an opinion of the legitimacy of the company but these things won’t happen overnight. Just like Rivian starting years ago and have yet to sell one of their vehicles, it’s going to nikola time. What is the biggest issue here to people that don’t like them?
I can't speak for everyone else but I don't think there are that many people that straight up dislike Nikola. However, there are many people that are skeptical/dismissive of them. Nikola is betting big on hydrogen fuel cell technology. Right now that is a huge unproven market and that's likely where some skepticism comes from. I think with the Badger people are dismissing it because all they've shown are a few concept drawings. I mean just look at the major things that we know about the R1T that we don't know about the Badger: We know the R1T will be made by Rvian in Normal Illinois, we know that Rivian is developing it's own battery pack technology, we know that Rivian is capable of producing prototype vehicles that are able to be stress/performance tested, and we know what the R1T will actually look like. We don't know any of that when it comes to the Badger.

Don't get me wrong, there are still a bunch of things that we don't know about the R1T (Warranty, service plans, autonomous features, etc.) but right now it is a lot closer to market than the Badger. Until Nikola start to deliver on the promises they've made people will remain skeptical.
 

skyote

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Until Nikola start to deliver on the promises they've made people will remain skeptical.
Skeptical is the perfect description of how I feel about Nikola. I genuinely hope for their success, but they haven't really showed us enough yet to inspire any degree of confidence.
 

Jehorton

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I can't speak for everyone else but I don't think there are that many people that straight up dislike Nikola. However, there are many people that are skeptical/dismissive of them. Nikola is betting big on hydrogen fuel cell technology. Right now that is a huge unproven market and that's likely where some skepticism comes from. I think with the Badger people are dismissing it because all they've shown are a few concept drawings. I mean just look at the major things that we know about the R1T that we don't know about the Badger: We know the R1T will be made by Rvian in Normal Illinois, we know that Rivian is developing it's own battery pack technology, we know that Rivian is capable of producing prototype vehicles that are able to be stress/performance tested, and we know what the R1T will actually look like. We don't know any of that when it comes to the Badger.

Don't get me wrong, there are still a bunch of things that we don't know about the R1T (Warranty, service plans, autonomous features, etc.) but right now it is a lot closer to market than the Badger. Until Nikola start to deliver on the promises they've made people will remain skeptical.
I agree with you in many points. There are some that I think can be shown to follow an almost similar route as Rivian.

Rivian has had preorders out for how long now and no vehicles sold yet. So as far as drawings from nikola and a guarantee a fully functioning vehicle in December tells me it’s real. Also they already have this vehicle working and testing, just not officially released to the public. As far as their semi truck endeavors go, is up in the air and I see how the hydrogen fuel cells can seem too much or not the technology for it yet to be completely useful.

I know nikola will partner with a big car corporation ( or so they say ) which I think is a positive over Rivian in my eyes. Taking a broken nikola vehicle into A ford or GM dealership rather than going the Tesla route for maintenance sounds better.

just like Rivian, there’s much more time left before an actual sale of the truck. So from now until that sale testing can be done. The earliest datefor sale is said to be 2021 and I’m sure that might be pushed back. I love Rivian and their truck and am excited for any awesome BEV truck to come out.

The company that looks the best and has the most reliability will end up getting my business and most everyone else’s.
 

RforRivian

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Rivian has had preorders out for how long now and no vehicles sold yet.
This is a good point. They were in "stealth mode" for what seems like an eternity and I don't think they could have waited much longer to reveal. To start production they likely badly needed the investments that they ended getting and also needed the brand name to be out there so people became aware. They have the money and the pre-orders, now they are to the point where they just need to deliver, and the sooner the better.

I know nikola will partner with a big car corporation ( or so they say ) which I think is a positive over Rivian in my eyes.
Who do you see manufacturing their design? Also, wouldn't whoever does agree to manufacture it be adding to the competition of a market that they might want to get into in the near future? Those are both genuine questions, I really haven't given it much thought. Ford has the electric F-150 already in the pipeline and GM seems to be investing in their own EV designs. Toyota looks to be betting on hydrogen so they might be interested considering that is a part of the design of the Badger. I just have trouble seeing how a legacy auto maker will agree to build a car designed by a start-up.
 

DucRider

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The big difference is Rivian had multiple working prototypes when they did the reveal and starting taking preorders.

They also do not have a track record of previous reveals, taking preorder deposits, then refunding them when they could not produce the promised product.

Rivian is also not a publicly traded company where soon after the reveal the founders and initial investors sold large chunks of stock (and in the case of Trevor Milton bought the most expensive home ever sold in Utah).
 

Jehorton

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The big difference is Rivian had multiple working prototypes when they did the reveal and starting taking preorders.

They also do not have a track record of previous reveals, taking preorder deposits, then refunding them when they could not produce the promised product.

Rivian is also not a publicly traded company where soon after the reveal the founders and initial investors sold large chunks of stock (and in the case of Trevor Milton bought the most expensive home ever sold in Utah).
I just see nikola in the early stages and people are quick to point out their flaws.

I do agree that Rivian seems to be more stable as a company at the moment over nikola.
 
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