Anyone buying the $500 Rivian Wall Charger?

[fotoflux]

For me, I have to pay an electrician to pull wires for a dedicated 240V circuit in the garage. the cost to install a hardwired solution at that point would be nominal. So For the extra $500, I get 35% faster charging and a cleaner look. I think that's worth it.

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[ajdelange]

You could just wire a plug into the RIVIAN charger they sell them at any home goods store or bestbuy. You just will not be able to get the full 48amps with a plug.

You will be able to get the full 48 Amps if you configure the box for a 60A breaker. The problem is that you shouldn't do that nor should you put a plug on a Rivian EVSE because NEC does not allow plugs on configurable EVSE and the reason is obvious. There are plenty of people ready to give bad advice on subjects they do not fully understand and the public is not able to tell who knows what he is talking about and who doesn't.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Absolutely it’s capable of up to 48 amps of charging there is only one other level 2 home charger that I know of that has that capability and that’s by ChargePoint at $700. More amps = faster charging, A 240V plug will give less amps than a level 2 charger hardwired to your home. For example to get the full 48 amps you will need to have a 2 pole 60 amp breaker installed and run 6 AWG wires from that directly to charger. I had a friend come out and install the wiring for me so now anyone with basic skills could install any hardwired level 2 charger.

Other 48A options are available from Wallbox, EnelX, Clipper Creek, Wattzilla, OpenEVSE (only one I know of that's available with a 14-60 plug), and a variety of less common manufacturers.

I went with the Wallbox, but I also have a clipper creek that I haven't installed. Prior to the hardwiring I had a 32A and 40A juicebox. Still have the 40A but gave the 32A to a friend. My 40A juicebox has had over 23MWh run through it.

 

[ajdelange]

Wattzilla Black Mamba can be (or I guess I should say could be - l haven’t checked recently) ordered with a 14 - 60P. Can’t legally use it in the US though.

 

[Taycanfrank]

I would personally use a wall charger that's already on the market. I've used ClipperCreek and really like their products.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

You could just wire a plug into the RIVIAN charger they sell them at any home goods store or bestbuy. You just will not be able to get the full 48amps with a plug.

That's what I did for my Tesla Wall charger and set the internal dip switches to 40Amps. Makes it more flexible to change out the charger (which I probably will do when I get rid of my Tesla). I'm OK with the 8Amp loss from not hardwiring it.

 

[DuckTruck]

Based on input received from @DucRider, @ajdelange, and others around these forums, I picked up a CharegePoint Home Flex, but also plan to get the discounted Rivian charger. Not sure which will stay home and which to take and install at a second, Oregon coast residence in the family. This second location has limited commercial charging nearby, so it seems logical to go with a faster L2 unit, rather than rely the portable L1 charger. It's hard to run the wipers at full speed all day long without enough juice.

Does anyone know enough, or have any thoughts about the Rivian unit to weigh in on which one to install and rely upon at home? Having two left hands and 40 years in the insurance field, both will be professionally installed. If either place burned down, it would destroy my loss ratio (plus pi$$ off a few people, myself included...).

Thanks in advance!

 

[Zoidz]

There's some good advice here, and some really bad ideas and advice here. There's only ONE source of the facts - NEC 2020. If you are looking at info from NEC 2017, it is outdated. You can tell because the name of the section was changed -
NEC 2017 - Article 625 "Electric Vehicle Charglng and and Supply Equipment"
NEC 2020 - Article 625 "Electric Vehicle Power Transfer System"

The reason for the name change should be obvious - Charging vs. bidirectional capabilities. If you hire an electrician, make sure they are using 2020. If they say "2017 is the latest approved locally" find another electrician. Yes, local municipalities adopt specific codes, and sometimes take a year or two to catch up to latest revision. If you install a system to 2017 code, shame on you.

I'll post some Article 625 excerpts that contain requirements that are important, and stuff that is readily overlooked, such as conductor maximum length and type. NEC text is in italics.

"This article covers the electrical conductors and equipment connecting an electric vehicle to premises wiring for the purposes of charging, power export, or bidirectional current flow.
Informational Note No. 1: For industrial trucks, see NFPA 505-2018, Fire Safety Standard for Powered Industrial Trucks Including Type Designations, Areas of Use, Conversions, Maintenance, and Operations.

Informational Note No. 2: UL 2594-2013, Standard for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, is a safety standard for conductive electric vehicle supply equipment. UL 2202-2009, Standard for Electric Vehicle Charging System Equipment, is a safety standard for conductive electric vehicle charging equipment."

625.17 Cords and Cables

Acceptable supply cord length depends on where the "interrupting device" is located. If it's a breaker in the main panel in the basement, the MAX cord length from the wall to the portable EVSE is TWELVE INCHES, or 6 FEET for a mounted EVSE AND the cord cannot contact the floor. If you have an "interrupting device" located at the plug, you can have a 15 foot cord. Why? This is about fire and shock protection.

(A) Power-Supply Cord

1. Have an overall length as specified in either of the following:
   1. When the interrupting device of the personnel protection system specified in 625.22 is located within the enclosure of the supply equipment or charging system, the power-supply cord shall be not more than the length indicated in (i) or (ii):
      1. For portable equipment in accordance with 625.44(A), the power supply cord shall be not more than 300 mm (12 in.) long.
      2. For stationary equipment in accordance with 625.44(B), the power supply cord shall be not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) long and the equipment shall be installed at a height that prevents the power supply cord from contacting the floor when it is connected to the proper receptacle.
   2. When the interrupting device of the personnel protection system specified in 625.22 is located at the attachment plug, or within the first 300 mm (12 in.) of the power-supply cord, the overall cord length shall be not greater than 4.6 m (15 ft).

For basic EVSEs, the output cable is 25' long max. No, you can't disassemble the EVSE and make the cable 35 feet long, or splice it, because you need more length. This has actually been suggested on some forums.

(B) Output Cable to Electric Vehicle

The output cable to the electric vehicle shall be one of the following:

1. Listed Type EV, EVJ, EVE, EVJE, EVT, or EVJT flexible cable as specified in Table 400.4
2. An integral part of listed electric vehicle supply equipment

Informational Note: For information and listing requirements for electric vehicle supply equipment, see UL 2594-2016, Standard for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, and UL 2202-2009, Standard for Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging System Equipment.


(C) Overall Cord and Cable Length

The overall usable length shall not exceed 7.5 m (25 ft) unless equipped with a cable management system that is part of the listed electric vehicle supply equipment.


Here are the acceptable connectors for plug in EVSE.

625.44 Equipment Connection

EVSE and WPTE shall be connected to the premises wiring system in accordance with one of the methods in 625.44(A) through (C).

(A) Portable Equipment

Portable equipment shall be connected to the premises wiring system by one or more of the following methods:

1. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 125 volts, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes
2. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 250 volts, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes
3. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire or 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 250 volts, single phase, 30 or 50 amperes
4. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 60 volts dc maximum, 15 or 20 amperes
   
   (B) Fastened-In-Place Equipment
   
   Equipment that is fastened in place shall be connected to the premises wiring system by one of the following methods:
5. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 125 volts or 250 volts, single phase, up to 50 amperes
6. A nonlocking, 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 250 volts, three phase, up to 50 amperes
7. A nonlocking, 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 250 volts, single phase, 30 or 50 amperes
8. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 60 volts dc maximum, 15 or 20 amperes

(C) Fixed Equipment

All other EVSE and WPTE shall be permanently wired and fixed in place to the supporting surface.



GROUND FAULT is required when a receptacle is used. I see lots of discussion here about using receptacles, but nothing about them being Ground Fault protected.

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel

In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

625.56 Receptacle Enclosures

All receptacles installed in a wet location for electric vehicle charging shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof with the attachment plug cap inserted or removed. An outlet box hood installed for this purpose shall be listed and shall be identified as extra duty. Other listed products, enclosures, or assemblies providing weatherproof protection that do not utilize an outlet box hood shall not be required to be marked extra duty.

I hope this helps clear up any questions or assumptions.

 

[BrayBay]

I struck out my previous post. I got excited about "modding" a Rivian charger without knowing much about electrical codes, and that was spreading misguided information. Sorry about that everyone!

 

[opnwide]

Based on input received from @DucRider, @ajdelange, and others around these forums, I picked up a CharegePoint Home Flex, but also plan to get the discounted Rivian charger. Not sure which will stay home and which to take and install at a second, Oregon coast residence in the family. This second location has limited commercial charging nearby, so it seems logical to go with a faster L2 unit, rather than rely the portable L1 charger. It's hard to run the wipers at full speed all day long without enough juice.

Does anyone know enough, or have any thoughts about the Rivian unit to weigh in on which one to install and rely upon at home? Having two left hands and 40 years in the insurance field, both will be professionally installed. If either place burned down, it would destroy my loss ratio (plus pi$$ off a few people, myself included...).

Thanks in advance!

Tom Moloughney did a great review of the ChargePoint Home Flex which you may have seen my detail of on another thread, as that’s what I also had installed from Xcel Energy no upfront cost, just renting for $13 a month on my power bill. Hardwired 60amp breaker 48amp continuous. I doubt there will be any other advantage to having one that says Rivian on the cover.

 

[Dark-Fx]

There's some good advice here, and some really bad ideas and advice here. There's only ONE source of the facts - NEC 2020. If you are looking at info from NEC 2017, it is outdated. You can tell because the name of the section was changed -
NEC 2017 - Article 625 "Electric Vehicle Charglng and and Supply Equipment"
NEC 2020 - Article 625 "Electric Vehicle Power Transfer System"

The reason for the name change should be obvious - Charging vs. bidirectional capabilities. If you hire an electrician, make sure they are using 2020. If they say "2017 is the latest approved locally" find another electrician. Yes, local municipalities adopt specific codes, and sometimes take a year or two to catch up to latest revision. If you install a system to 2017 code, shame on you.

I'll post some Article 625 excerpts that contain requirements that are important, and stuff that is readily overlooked, such as conductor maximum length and type. NEC text is in italics.

"This article covers the electrical conductors and equipment connecting an electric vehicle to premises wiring for the purposes of charging, power export, or bidirectional current flow.
Informational Note No. 1: For industrial trucks, see NFPA 505-2018, Fire Safety Standard for Powered Industrial Trucks Including Type Designations, Areas of Use, Conversions, Maintenance, and Operations.

Informational Note No. 2: UL 2594-2013, Standard for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, is a safety standard for conductive electric vehicle supply equipment. UL 2202-2009, Standard for Electric Vehicle Charging System Equipment, is a safety standard for conductive electric vehicle charging equipment."

625.17 Cords and Cables

Acceptable supply cord length depends on where the "interrupting device" is located. If it's a breaker in the main panel in the basement, the MAX cord length from the wall to the portable EVSE is TWELVE INCHES, or 6 FEET for a mounted EVSE AND the cord cannot contact the floor. If you have an "interrupting device" located at the plug, you can have a 15 foot cord. Why? This is about fire and shock protection.

(A) Power-Supply Cord

1. Have an overall length as specified in either of the following:
   1. When the interrupting device of the personnel protection system specified in 625.22 is located within the enclosure of the supply equipment or charging system, the power-supply cord shall be not more than the length indicated in (i) or (ii):
      1. For portable equipment in accordance with 625.44(A), the power supply cord shall be not more than 300 mm (12 in.) long.
      2. For stationary equipment in accordance with 625.44(B), the power supply cord shall be not more than 1.8 m (6 ft) long and the equipment shall be installed at a height that prevents the power supply cord from contacting the floor when it is connected to the proper receptacle.
   2. When the interrupting device of the personnel protection system specified in 625.22 is located at the attachment plug, or within the first 300 mm (12 in.) of the power-supply cord, the overall cord length shall be not greater than 4.6 m (15 ft).

For basic EVSEs, the output cable is 25' long max. No, you can't disassemble the EVSE and make the cable 35 feet long, or splice it, because you need more length. This has actually been suggested on some forums.

(B) Output Cable to Electric Vehicle

The output cable to the electric vehicle shall be one of the following:

1. Listed Type EV, EVJ, EVE, EVJE, EVT, or EVJT flexible cable as specified in Table 400.4
2. An integral part of listed electric vehicle supply equipment

Informational Note: For information and listing requirements for electric vehicle supply equipment, see UL 2594-2016, Standard for Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, and UL 2202-2009, Standard for Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging System Equipment.


(C) Overall Cord and Cable Length

The overall usable length shall not exceed 7.5 m (25 ft) unless equipped with a cable management system that is part of the listed electric vehicle supply equipment.


Here are the acceptable connectors for plug in EVSE.

625.44 Equipment Connection

EVSE and WPTE shall be connected to the premises wiring system in accordance with one of the methods in 625.44(A) through (C).

(A) Portable Equipment

Portable equipment shall be connected to the premises wiring system by one or more of the following methods:

1. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 125 volts, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes
2. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 250 volts, single phase, 15 or 20 amperes
3. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire or 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 250 volts, single phase, 30 or 50 amperes
4. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated at 60 volts dc maximum, 15 or 20 amperes
   
   (B) Fastened-In-Place Equipment
   
   Equipment that is fastened in place shall be connected to the premises wiring system by one of the following methods:
5. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 125 volts or 250 volts, single phase, up to 50 amperes
6. A nonlocking, 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 250 volts, three phase, up to 50 amperes
7. A nonlocking, 3-pole, 4-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 250 volts, single phase, 30 or 50 amperes
8. A nonlocking, 2-pole, 3-wire grounding-type receptacle outlet rated 60 volts dc maximum, 15 or 20 amperes

(C) Fixed Equipment

All other EVSE and WPTE shall be permanently wired and fixed in place to the supporting surface.



GROUND FAULT is required when a receptacle is used. I see lots of discussion here about using receptacles, but nothing about them being Ground Fault protected.

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel

In addition to the requirements in 210.8, all receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

625.56 Receptacle Enclosures

All receptacles installed in a wet location for electric vehicle charging shall have an enclosure that is weatherproof with the attachment plug cap inserted or removed. An outlet box hood installed for this purpose shall be listed and shall be identified as extra duty. Other listed products, enclosures, or assemblies providing weatherproof protection that do not utilize an outlet box hood shall not be required to be marked extra duty.

I hope this helps clear up any questions or assumptions.

And the 2014 NEC didn't allow use of 240V portable EVSEs. It's clearly a case of technology outpacing the standards. I'll dig through and see if I can find out more information about what draft that change went in on and see if there are comments about it.

I plan on suggesting some changes to the NEC CMP if they didn't provide a reasoning for the addition. No technical reason I can think of that 60A outlets shouldn't be "to code" other than just not anticipating the need for the higher amperage charging.

 

[svet-am]

I _was_ planning to get the Rivian charger. It's a great value for the price. But, then my wife got her new Volvo XC40 Recharge and we needed a hard-wired EVSE _right now_. I talked to Rivian CS and they would not ship the Rivian EVSE before I take delivery of my truck. So, I took the Rivian EVSE off my pre-order and got a Clipper Creek HCS-50 instead.

 

[JakiChan]

At $500 that's the same price as the Span Drive. And since I already have a Span panel I will likely go the Span Drive route. It's safer that way since Span won't let me overdraw, like if the charger was running at max output (48A), the AC was on, and something else kicked in. It dynamically adjusts things to charge at the max of what your home's electrical can handle. Or, if you make charging a priority, it will deactivate circuits to keep the charger at max rate.

 

[WrekEE]

If others need one prior to the Rivian I recommend the Chargepoint. I am currently using it for my 4xe and its one of the best on the market. I have tried the Grizzle and the one from costco. Both had issues with very frequent errors while charging.

 

[moosetags]

We did order the Rivian wall charger with our R1T. It is $500 with the vehicle and $700 when ordered separately.

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