Answers & info from lunch w/ Rivian's Sr. Director of Customer Engagement Center

[Zoidz]

Had the pleasure to sit down with Rivian today and discuss lots of the topics that have come up on this post and on the forum overall.

First and foremost, this group is being heard and they are actively looking to address a large number of the open questions posted here. The main point that I tried to emphasize is the need/desire for more transparency and clarity. It's okay if they either do not have the final info to share on a particular topic or if they are just not ready to make their answer "official". But having some sort of view into when that will come is what is most desired, as what causes most of the debates here is due to lack of visibility which leads to assumptions being made. I believe this was heard loud and clear.

I was very impressed with the homework the team has done between monitoring the boards, monitoring Customer Service chat sessions, and documenting Guide conversations where those have started. This team gets a huge A+ when it comes to attention to details...and if they are taking this much effort on their customers I cannot wait to see the finished product when it rolls off the assembly lines.

More to come, but wanted to give you all a quick update.

Updated with answers & notes:

Couple of quick hits...

First, the following is my best recollection and interpretation of what was said...I promise I am not embellishing anything below, but that being said, take it with a grain of salt if I misheard or misremembered something.

They are planning on doing more outreach like they have recently (DuckTruck's factory tour, my lunch, etc.). They have a number of ways that they are looking to engage with pre-order holders leading up to AND THROUGH launch deliveries.

Not all of the info we are asking for is final-final...and instead of putting out near final info out there, they rather wait and get it right...we all know there are some of us who would hang them if they said mileage would be 350 miles and then it came in at 340 miles later. I do not blame them for this whatsoever.

We spoke a lot about the info that is being communicated...cadence of info, what the info is, who delivers the info. As to be expected this will be a constantly evolving process. I shared my personal opinion that right now the pre-order holders have typical early adopter mentality (give me as much info as possible to consume and then give me fancy, polished videos later). Believe the more polished materials will be useful later when you are trying to convert people who are just hearing about Rivian. Right now everyone is data hungry and in the absence of data we all have a tendency to start making assumptions that fit our own narratives (positive or negative).

As expected, there are strangers among us. Think we all realize this, but not everyone here is a pre-order holder...there are competitors, industry people, Rivian employees, general trolls, etc. They know this...believe we all know this...interesting to hear that they are aware of it nonetheless.

The conversation was great though...learned a lot about his journey...what he is hoping to personally accomplish...what the company is looking to accomplish. A lot of the convo was around my thinking on this or that...agree with them or not, here are some of my opinions that I shared...

• set a timeline for when we can expect info...if there is a reason to not publish EPA numbers just yet, say so and let us know when we can expect them...start with a month, then tell us what week, and then release...I think most of us are okay with waiting for certain pieces of data to come but we want to know when to expect them so we arent hitting refresh on message boards like this all day/night
• in regards to boards I asked if there were plans to have an "official" message board at some point...was told it is something they are having conversations about and asked my opinion...I responded that I believed at some point there should be an official message board so that users had a place to meet, interact, and learn from one another. In terms of timing I said that I didnt think it was necessary until they were at a point where most all pre-orders had been fulfilled and potential new customers were coming to the site to find out more...we WILL be and ARE the biggest advocates for the brand
• along those lines I recommended having official "ambassadors" on this (and other) boards...those of us who do have Guides and are also passionate about helping out others with the info they have. Saw a lot of that on this very post...people would list a question they wanted me to ask and someone else on the board was able to post the answer as the info is out there but maybe we all just dont know where to find it or need help to understand it
• "s00n" did come up...they hear our agitation and have taken it to heart...it was never done to ruffle our feathers, it was just the best answer to give at the time as the answers were/are coming soon...i recommended a s00n shirt be produced and sold to acknowledge that we all get it
• discussed the criteria that will determine the order in which vehicles will be produced and we will receive...nothing surprising here...configuration, location, order date (which is NOT discernable by any number that you are able to get regardless of how early you ordered).
• mentioned that I am in the boat of being okay with more than one color if it gets me the car any earlier...sounds like most of us have stated the same/similar and one of their concerns is if an official order is published at some point it throws off the numbers as too many people would swap their configurations to match and the planning is well underway already
• "launch green" is actively discussed internally as to whether or not it should have come first based on the naming or if it just should have been called something like Limited Edition Green to not set the improper expectation that it was first off the line
• discussed my experiences with taking possession of a Model 3 very early on in launch and how that process played out...what was good, what was bad, what I thought was fine but could be improved
• discussed how this process will be difficult for many as there arent traditional dealerships so there are many of us who will see a certain color or even the vehicle itself for the first time in person when we are picking ours up...something that will be a hard pill for some to swallow and something that some of us have done in the past (myself in that latter group with the Model 3)
• ::edit:: one more thing...they get that the configurator needs a little work as it doesnt represent all of the colors in the most accurate way...i think we will see this updated prior to deliveries (my opinion on that part)

I think it's easy for us to forget that no matter how successful they have been thus far, they are still a start up and things evolve quickly when you are growing as fast as they are (literally hiring hundreds and thousands of people over the past couple of years since they have come out of stealth mode).

I'm sure there are some things that I am forgetting right now and will fill in more as I remember or find out more.

Extra big thank you to both my guide and my companion for lunch today...you both are great examples of why I would someday hope to join the team there as well.

Added:

I did forget one part...at one point we were discussing how the used car market is absolutely insane right now and how not knowing exactly when I will get my R1T has left me in a bit of a pickle. The price I have been offered for my existing car has gone from ~$12-14K 6 weeks ago to $18-22K now...something I would be inclined to take if I knew just how long we would be a 1-car household for. The uncertainty of knowing a more exact delivery date has ripple effects to other decisions that I have to make. They found this to be an interesting perspective and said that they would take it back to the team to discuss. Nothing may come of it, but it could also spark a change in the internal thinking/actions as well.

Thanks for taking the time to provide this update! It sounds like you expressed the concerns of the community and presented it to them in a constructive manner. I'm looking forward to seeing the results - Great Job!!

Sponsored

 

[protamine]

It was really great to hear Ducktruck telling us how the 20" AT tires would likely be the only tire we would need, quiet and effective on/off pavement. Very convincing, and maybe that is what Rivian wanted to do, get more people to change to the 20' AT tire. But surely, the EPA ratings for each of their tire options should be available to put on their website at this time. Just cannot think of a reason to withhold this information, that everyone purchasing a vehicle wants (needs) to know. They could have an official Rivian ambassador post it here for all to see, but why not just put it on their official website now?

Honestly I dont care what the EPA ratings are

Just say "R1T has range of 3xx on 21" "

Then on the website say 'our testing shows the 22 to be xx, 21 to be xx and 20 to be xx'. make a video of all 3 driving next to each other and see who runs out where. Easy enough. Doesnt have to be EPA. Most companies dont epa certify anything besides different engines, right?

 

[SlaterGS]

Had the pleasure to sit down with Rivian today and discuss lots of the topics that have come up on this post and on the forum overall.

First and foremost, this group is being heard and they are actively looking to address a large number of the open questions posted here. The main point that I tried to emphasize is the need/desire for more transparency and clarity. It's okay if they either do not have the final info to share on a particular topic or if they are just not ready to make their answer "official". But having some sort of view into when that will come is what is most desired, as what causes most of the debates here is due to lack of visibility which leads to assumptions being made. I believe this was heard loud and clear.

I was very impressed with the homework the team has done between monitoring the boards, monitoring Customer Service chat sessions, and documenting Guide conversations where those have started. This team gets a huge A+ when it comes to attention to details...and if they are taking this much effort on their customers I cannot wait to see the finished product when it rolls off the assembly lines.

More to come, but wanted to give you all a quick update.

Updated with answers & notes:

Couple of quick hits...

First, the following is my best recollection and interpretation of what was said...I promise I am not embellishing anything below, but that being said, take it with a grain of salt if I misheard or misremembered something.

They are planning on doing more outreach like they have recently (DuckTruck's factory tour, my lunch, etc.). They have a number of ways that they are looking to engage with pre-order holders leading up to AND THROUGH launch deliveries.

Not all of the info we are asking for is final-final...and instead of putting out near final info out there, they rather wait and get it right...we all know there are some of us who would hang them if they said mileage would be 350 miles and then it came in at 340 miles later. I do not blame them for this whatsoever.

We spoke a lot about the info that is being communicated...cadence of info, what the info is, who delivers the info. As to be expected this will be a constantly evolving process. I shared my personal opinion that right now the pre-order holders have typical early adopter mentality (give me as much info as possible to consume and then give me fancy, polished videos later). Believe the more polished materials will be useful later when you are trying to convert people who are just hearing about Rivian. Right now everyone is data hungry and in the absence of data we all have a tendency to start making assumptions that fit our own narratives (positive or negative).

As expected, there are strangers among us. Think we all realize this, but not everyone here is a pre-order holder...there are competitors, industry people, Rivian employees, general trolls, etc. They know this...believe we all know this...interesting to hear that they are aware of it nonetheless.

The conversation was great though...learned a lot about his journey...what he is hoping to personally accomplish...what the company is looking to accomplish. A lot of the convo was around my thinking on this or that...agree with them or not, here are some of my opinions that I shared...

• set a timeline for when we can expect info...if there is a reason to not publish EPA numbers just yet, say so and let us know when we can expect them...start with a month, then tell us what week, and then release...I think most of us are okay with waiting for certain pieces of data to come but we want to know when to expect them so we arent hitting refresh on message boards like this all day/night
• in regards to boards I asked if there were plans to have an "official" message board at some point...was told it is something they are having conversations about and asked my opinion...I responded that I believed at some point there should be an official message board so that users had a place to meet, interact, and learn from one another. In terms of timing I said that I didnt think it was necessary until they were at a point where most all pre-orders had been fulfilled and potential new customers were coming to the site to find out more...we WILL be and ARE the biggest advocates for the brand
• along those lines I recommended having official "ambassadors" on this (and other) boards...those of us who do have Guides and are also passionate about helping out others with the info they have. Saw a lot of that on this very post...people would list a question they wanted me to ask and someone else on the board was able to post the answer as the info is out there but maybe we all just dont know where to find it or need help to understand it
• "s00n" did come up...they hear our agitation and have taken it to heart...it was never done to ruffle our feathers, it was just the best answer to give at the time as the answers were/are coming soon...i recommended a s00n shirt be produced and sold to acknowledge that we all get it
• discussed the criteria that will determine the order in which vehicles will be produced and we will receive...nothing surprising here...configuration, location, order date (which is NOT discernable by any number that you are able to get regardless of how early you ordered).
• mentioned that I am in the boat of being okay with more than one color if it gets me the car any earlier...sounds like most of us have stated the same/similar and one of their concerns is if an official order is published at some point it throws off the numbers as too many people would swap their configurations to match and the planning is well underway already
• "launch green" is actively discussed internally as to whether or not it should have come first based on the naming or if it just should have been called something like Limited Edition Green to not set the improper expectation that it was first off the line
• discussed my experiences with taking possession of a Model 3 very early on in launch and how that process played out...what was good, what was bad, what I thought was fine but could be improved
• discussed how this process will be difficult for many as there arent traditional dealerships so there are many of us who will see a certain color or even the vehicle itself for the first time in person when we are picking ours up...something that will be a hard pill for some to swallow and something that some of us have done in the past (myself in that latter group with the Model 3)
• ::edit:: one more thing...they get that the configurator needs a little work as it doesnt represent all of the colors in the most accurate way...i think we will see this updated prior to deliveries (my opinion on that part)

I think it's easy for us to forget that no matter how successful they have been thus far, they are still a start up and things evolve quickly when you are growing as fast as they are (literally hiring hundreds and thousands of people over the past couple of years since they have come out of stealth mode).

I'm sure there are some things that I am forgetting right now and will fill in more as I remember or find out more.

Extra big thank you to both my guide and my companion for lunch today...you both are great examples of why I would someday hope to join the team there as well.

Added:

I did forget one part...at one point we were discussing how the used car market is absolutely insane right now and how not knowing exactly when I will get my R1T has left me in a bit of a pickle. The price I have been offered for my existing car has gone from ~$12-14K 6 weeks ago to $18-22K now...something I would be inclined to take if I knew just how long we would be a 1-car household for. The uncertainty of knowing a more exact delivery date has ripple effects to other decisions that I have to make. They found this to be an interesting perspective and said that they would take it back to the team to discuss. Nothing may come of it, but it could also spark a change in the internal thinking/actions as well.

Thank you for putting this together, but honestly I only got two things from this.
One positive and one negative.

Positive: They are watching the forums and beginning to have more direct communication with some customers

Negative: It feels like everything I read was just another "s00n" reply from Rivian as there wasn't anything of substance

I think I was maybe expecting (probably my fault) more from a direct meeting with the Sr Director of Customer Engagement or I would have expected this to happen months ago.
This meeting seemingly feels like they are trying to catch up in order to have better communication with the community even though they are only 1-2 months from their stated delivery (after many delays and assuming there isn't another).

This isn't about the delays, I get those and can empathize with them, but this kind of feels like them trying to catch up on months of failed/poor/non-existent communication. If they were truly following along with the forum, then I think they already know what they need to do and nothing new would have come from this meeting. So my positive almost has turned to a negative because it feels like lip service.

 

[Autolycus]

Honestly I dont care what the EPA ratings are

Just say "R1T has range of 3xx on 21" "

Then on the website say 'our testing shows the 22 to be xx, 21 to be xx and 20 to be xx'. make a video of all 3 driving next to each other and see who runs out where. Easy enough. Doesnt have to be EPA. Most companies dont epa certify anything besides different engines, right?

Tesla does have different EPA numbers for the 2021 Model S Performance on the 19" vs. 21" wheels, and it's a BIG difference. (387 mile range vs. 334 mile range)

 

[SANZC02]

Tesla does have different EPA numbers for the 2021 Model S Performance on the 19" vs. 21" wheels, and it's a BIG difference. (387 mile range vs. 334 mile range)

It is worth noting they do not differentiate between wheels on the Model 3 and Model Y on their website.

The Long range is not that different abut 7.5%, there must be other factors in how they handle the performance levels in the Plaid that causes a 12% difference.

I looked at the Model X as well, even less difference for this one about 2.5%, for both the Plaid (340/330) and the long Range

 

[Diddy123]

Thanks very much for having this conversation with them, as well as soliciting questions and providing us with their comments. I know that you were trying to keep the conversation friendly, which is exactly the right way to do it, but did you get an answers as to why they are still holding so much as secret, and why they continue to miss promised communication deadlines? I personally believe that doing so shows massive disrespect to Rivian's most avid fans. But I'm also aware others don't feel the same way.

We're you able to specifically ask the following 2 questions?:
-It’s been one month since RJ promised better communication and more frequent production updates…yet we’ve heard absolutely nothing. Why?

-Guides had told several people to expect loads of info and weekly emails starting in late June, yet here it is mid-August, and still nothing. Why?

Thanks again for your great contribution!

 

[mike22co]

Thanks for the write-up on your meeting! I can't help but think that some of Rivian's perceived lack of information sharing is just them trying to meet the needs of all different perspective customers. I'm a bit late to the game, made a reservation for an R1S in June, 2021.

I'll be honest, I didn't know all the things I should be concerned about until much later, after I started reading these forums. To quote little orphan Annie: "maybe it is better to not know what you are missing." I didn't have too many concerns about wheel size until reading forums. Now I'm 100% not sure that the 21" is the best choice.

As someone who is near the end of the queue, I think my main concerns might be:

1. EPA ranges. If it's all in the ballpark of 300 miles, I'm good. If wheels really make a huge difference, I'd like to know that.
2. Towing experience. It can't be worse than our 2012 Yukon Denali XL, but if the range is 50 miles, I need to know. (variables, yes! camper size, area of the country, temperature)
3. 3rd row seats. This seems to be a behind-the-curtain feature of Tesla, too. I know the R1S is about 12-14" shorter than my Yukon XL, but I can sit (6'1") in the 3rd row seats no problem. Mostly due to the captains chairs...
4. Will I realistically be able to replace or upgrade the battery pack in 8 years and 1 day? If I like this vehicle as much as I think I will, I'd like to keep it as long as possible. I *feel* like this aligns with the Rivian company goals of sustainability and environmental impact. I just keep picturing having to disassemble the whole thing to get the battery out and that scares me. A video of them doing just that would be insanely cool!
5. That's about it.

I just don't have the anxiety about delays yet (even though I am a bit obsessed about the vehicles) due to my place in line. I feel for the people that have been here for 2+ years now. It really does seem like all the pieces are coming into place now for a production run. That factory tour was no joke. I saw a LOT of R1T frames in those videos.

Anyway, I'm just excited and I also received my welcome letter and artistic rendering of the R1S in the mail yesterday, so that made my happy.

 

[DucRider]

We're you able to specifically ask the following 2 questions?:
-It’s been one month since RJ promised better communication and more frequent production updates…yet we’ve heard absolutely nothing. Why?

-Guides had told several people to expect loads of info and weekly emails starting in late June, yet here it is mid-August, and still nothing. Why?

Thanks again for your great contribution!

1) This sitdown with @KWeimer711 was increased communications (as was the info provided by the reservation holders that attended the first drive event). Not all communication is thru emails....

2) That June info dump was tied to deliveries starting in June. When deliveries moved to July, the promised info schedule aslo moved. With deliveries rescheduled to September, I fully expected the timing on the weekly emails to move as well. They could have stated this explicitly, but it is likely tied to the official launch (and part of the buildup).

People that want to find gloom and doom can do so in damn near any statement they read or situation they find themselves in. This is not targeted at any forum member in particular, but reflective of the general tone most threads seem to take at some point. Some of it is intentional and calculated spreading of FUD. Much of it is from others jumping on the negativity bandwagon (the true measure of how successful any FUD campaign is). I think all reservation holders are disappointed with the delays, so it's relatively easy for FUDsters to amplify those feelings of frustration.

Rivian is going to do things differently than the traditional OEMs. That is one of the things that attracts me to them as a company along with the very compelling product they are producing. I am so looking forward to the toned down "first drive" experience we will get on the upcoming tours (no way they can do a drift track and Mt Rivian in every city). I am 100% confident I will have all the info I need before they ask me to sign on the dotted line.

 

[KWeimer711]

At the very least a road map on when they estimate a particular area will be eligible for guide contacts and order delivery. We've had all these wonderful videos of Rivian's in Utah, but are being ghosted on setting up our next date. I am willing to treat someone to a nice dinner at Valter's for a guide contact.

This is something that was discussed. I recommended showing everyone a Quarter to start, then moving that to a month as we enter that Quarter, and then moving that to a specific week/day as we enter that month.

Seemed to be receptive to the idea...keep in mind the dates could fluctuate a bit but at least gives everyone a target for when they will have their conversations/receive their vehicles

 

[KWeimer711]

Just my opinion, but I think Rivian’s communications to date are pretty poor. Look at what a small percentage of pre-order holders are say on this or other forums or even on social media follower. Maybe why zero of my friends or family has ever heard of Rivian. Example, Atlis Motors, a tiny EV start up does a weekly 2 minute update via email, YouTube, etc and in that EV truck survey from a while back either scored the same or ahead of Rivian. So a company that has raised maybe $12 million compared to $10 billion has better name recognition.

I believe a lot of that will change dramatically once trucks start shipping (for Rivian as well as Atlis)...right now it seems like there are more than enough reservation to convert to orders to get things started and then they can focus on bringing in new people to the brand later. Bringing in a new customer now may work against them in a way...you have to figure that most early adopters are already here and have reservations in. Someone coming to the brand right now is likely to be disappointed with a timeline that is months, maybe a year, away.

 

[Driveout]

I get it Kanundrum about keeping it casual. It was good to have any information at all and I am truly grateful. Cell phones are ubiquitous and disappear into the background. I'm just hungry for information... hell I'm hungry for a more visceral experience and that more casual sense that comes after 6 months of ownership when the "new" has worn off and the truck becomes an everyday experience. I believe no one here (except for the official Rivian lurkers) has any idea what the delivery criteria will be. We'll know in the next 44 days if September is a realistic goal for delivery. Where is the drone footage of the Normal plant and the gleaming R1T's eagerly awaiting their new owners?

 

[KWeimer711]

Honestly I dont care what the EPA ratings are

Just say "R1T has range of 3xx on 21" "

Then on the website say 'our testing shows the 22 to be xx, 21 to be xx and 20 to be xx'. make a video of all 3 driving next to each other and see who runs out where. Easy enough. Doesnt have to be EPA. Most companies dont epa certify anything besides different engines, right?

Seems like that is all coming...and as much as we WANT that info we dont NEED that info until we are asked to write a check and accept delivery. That is not to say they will wait until the last minute to provide the details, but getting them now is likely not meaningfully changing anyone's decision.

The 300+ mile range they have quoted is good enough for most...I dont believe finding out it will be 315 miles vs 330 miles is going to convince anyone to change their mind

 

[KWeimer711]

Thank you for putting this together, but honestly I only got two things from this.
One positive and one negative.

Positive: They are watching the forums and beginning to have more direct communication with some customers

Negative: It feels like everything I read was just another "s00n" reply from Rivian as there wasn't anything of substance

I think I was maybe expecting (probably my fault) more from a direct meeting with the Sr Director of Customer Engagement or I would have expected this to happen months ago.
This meeting seemingly feels like they are trying to catch up in order to have better communication with the community even though they are only 1-2 months from their stated delivery (after many delays and assuming there isn't another).

This isn't about the delays, I get those and can empathize with them, but this kind of feels like them trying to catch up on months of failed/poor/non-existent communication. If they were truly following along with the forum, then I think they already know what they need to do and nothing new would have come from this meeting. So my positive almost has turned to a negative because it feels like lip service.

I can understand a lot of where you are coming from. Keep in mind that most companies have been on some sort of restricted travel policies up until recently...so some of this probably indeed is catch up. That being said, I think it is positive the outreach they are doing (the tours at the factory likely being the biggest positive). We all want info ASAP...but getting that info just serves the want, not the need at this point. We have some dates to look forward to with deliveries starting in less than 6 weeks.

 

[Diddy123]

1) This sitdown with @KWeimer711 was increased communications (as was the info provided by the reservation holders that attended the first drive event). Not all communication is thru emails....

2) That June info dump was tied to deliveries starting in June. When deliveries moved to July, the promised info schedule aslo moved. With deliveries rescheduled to September, I fully expected the timing on the weekly emails to move as well. They could have stated this explicitly, but it is likely tied to the official launch (and part of the buildup).

People that want to find gloom and doom can do so in damn near any statement they read or situation they find themselves in. This is not targeted at any forum member in particular, but reflective of the general tone most threads seem to take at some point. Some of it is intentional and calculated spreading of FUD. Much of it is from others jumping on the negativity bandwagon (the true measure of how successful any FUD campaign is). I think all reservation holders are disappointed with the delays, so it's relatively easy for FUDsters to amplify those feelings of frustration.

Rivian is going to do things differently than the traditional OEMs. That is one of the things that attracts me to them as a company along with the very compelling product they are producing. I am so looking forward to the toned down "first drive" experience we will get on the upcoming tours (no way they can do a drift track and Mt Rivian in every city). I am 100% confident I will have all the info I need before they ask me to sign on the dotted line.

Sorry for any confusion. I was asking the OP if he was able to ask my questions to Rivian, and if so, what their responses were.

 

[KWeimer711]

Thanks very much for having this conversation with them, as well as soliciting questions and providing us with their comments. I know that you were trying to keep the conversation friendly, which is exactly the right way to do it, but did you get an answers as to why they are still holding so much as secret, and why they continue to miss promised communication deadlines? I personally believe that doing so shows massive disrespect to Rivian's most avid fans. But I'm also aware others don't feel the same way.

We're you able to specifically ask the following 2 questions?:
-It’s been one month since RJ promised better communication and more frequent production updates…yet we’ve heard absolutely nothing. Why?

-Guides had told several people to expect loads of info and weekly emails starting in late June, yet here it is mid-August, and still nothing. Why?

Thanks again for your great contribution!

Not in those exact words, but in a round about way, yes.

I was asked a specific question back...do I believe that we (as a collective) take anything that comes out of Rivian as an update, or only things that come from RJ.

My answer was that we (as a collective) are passionate, as proven by how early we all placed reservations, and by being passionate we already know 99% of the information that is officially shared by Rivian through their posts/emails by the time that it comes out. Said that the info from RJ seems to be more meaningful because it is typically the info that is unknown by most of us (and as it turns out unknown by some on the inside at the time as well). My recommendation was save the polished videos for when they are trying to capture additional customers and in the mean time give us more raw data/info quicker...and for the info they dont want to give just yet, give us some sort of timeline guidance on when we can expect to find out that info.

Sponsored