Answers & info from lunch w/ Rivian's Sr. Director of Customer Engagement Center

[skyote]

So they claimed early order numbers didn't reflect order date even though we have the raw data that shows otherwise here on this board. We know they switched to some random system later in the process but the early numbers are pretty linear.

Tell me your order # if it was prior to Aug 2020, and I can tell you your order date within a few days, if not the specific date.

Now, what we've come to learn is that abandoned checkouts also incremented the order #s. We can only guess at actual number of preorders, and cancelations are also unknown, but we can absolutely correlate order #s and dates (for preorders before Aug 2020).

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[BigE]

The truth always comes out. You build trust & loyalty with honesty.

I was corresponding with Rivan CS last week. In my last email, I talked about building Trust with future customers as we all are. Trust is hard to earn and easy to lose. I have yet to receive any response from Rivian.

 

[KWeimer711]

I don’t think that is the case at all (personal opinion). Vehicles are rolling down the line. We saw that with DuckTruck’s recent videos/experience. I believe deliveries happen faster than currently being stated and that they under promised this last round of dates in order to over deliver.

 

[KWeimer711]

So they claimed early order numbers didn't reflect order date even though we have the raw data that shows otherwise here on this board. We know they switched to some random system later in the process but the early numbers are pretty linear.

They stated our list isn’t entirely inaccurate…but it’s not as accurate as we believe it to be either. I didn’t press the issue but can follow up the next time I have an opportunity

 

[KWeimer711]

Tell me your order # if it was prior to Aug 2020, and I can tell you your order date within a few days, if not the specific date.

Now, what we've come to learn is that abandoned checkouts also incremented the order #s. We can only guess at actual number of preorders, and cancelations are also unknown, but we can absolutely correlate order #s and dates (for preorders before Aug 2020).

Yea, I believe it’s more along these lines…that the order number can give direction but is nothing a 1 for 1 for order number due to some of the reasons you mention

 

[LoneStar]

Good stuff.... but did you ever press them on the topic of EPA results being announced? You said that you emphasized the importance to this community to know when such vital info is expected. Did they in-turn indicate ANYTHING about it..

 

[KWeimer711]

Good stuff.... but did you ever press them on the topic of EPA results being announced? You said that you emphasized the importance to this community to know when such vital info is expected. Did they in-turn indicate ANYTHING about it..

seemed like that info was all being finalized for an official release and that numbers were known. But don’t quote me on that, just the perception I had when it came up. This was one of those areas where I recommended letting us know when it will be made available so we could stop talking about it in the meantime

 

[BoltEVowner]

I don’t think that is the case at all (personal opinion). Vehicles are rolling down the line. We saw that with DuckTruck’s recent videos/experience. I believe deliveries happen faster than currently being stated and that they under promised this last round of dates in order to over deliver.

R1T's are rolling down the line for certain, 15 at a time, evaluate and make adjustments...so we have been told. Question is, when will there be "deliverable" non-test vehicles, with marketable, real VIN numbers coming off the line, or is that happening now? Can deliverable VIN numbers be added on to "test" production vehicles to make them deliverable? Would be great if they would share...before an R1T just shows up at someone's house and we hear about it that way.

It was really great to hear Ducktruck telling us how the 20" AT tires would likely be the only tire we would need, quiet and effective on/off pavement. Very convincing, and maybe that is what Rivian wanted to do, get more people to change to the 20' AT tire. But surely, the EPA ratings for each of their tire options should be available to put on their website at this time. Just cannot think of a reason to withhold this information, that everyone purchasing a vehicle wants (needs) to know. They could have an official Rivian ambassador post it here for all to see, but why not just put it on their official website now?

And, thanks for sharing everything thus far!!! We are making progress, but still waiting (although not so patiently) for Rivian to come forth with their commitment to communicate better.

 

[GaryL]

They stated our list isn’t entirely inaccurate…but it’s not as accurate as we believe it to be either. I didn’t press the issue but can follow up the next time I have an opportunity

Thank's but really no need to follow up. Rivian is going to deliver to whom they want, where they want, when they want without regard to order date anyway so no need to waste much energy on the question. Just a matter of credibility for me personally

 

[flabyboy]

Tell me your order # if it was prior to Aug 2020, and I can tell you your order date within a few days, if not the specific date.

Now, what we've come to learn is that abandoned checkouts also incremented the order #s. We can only guess at actual number of preorders, and cancelations are also unknown, but we can absolutely correlate order #s and dates (for preorders before Aug 2020).

Is there a decent estimate to how many official preorders there actually are ??

 

[Jarico75]

Thank's but really no need to follow up. Rivian is going to deliver to whom they want, where they want, when they want without regard to order date anyway so no need to waste much energy on the question. Just a matter of credibility for me personally

At the very least a road map on when they estimate a particular area will be eligible for guide contacts and order delivery. We've had all these wonderful videos of Rivian's in Utah, but are being ghosted on setting up our next date. I am willing to treat someone to a nice dinner at Valter's for a guide contact.

 

[BigE]

Just my opinion, but I think Rivian’s communications to date are pretty poor. Look at what a small percentage of pre-order holders are say on this or other forums or even on social media follower. Maybe why zero of my friends or family has ever heard of Rivian. Example, Atlis Motors, a tiny EV start up does a weekly 2 minute update via email, YouTube, etc and in that EV truck survey from a while back either scored the same or ahead of Rivian. So a company that has raised maybe $12 million compared to $10 billion has better name recognition.

 

[skyote]

Is there a decent estimate to how many official preorders there actually are ??

Rivian knows, but we don't. There's no way for an outsider to know, far too many variables & unknowns.

 

[Zoidz]

Just my opinion, but I think Rivian’s communications to date are pretty poor. Look at what a small percentage of pre-order holders are say on this or other forums or even on social media follower. Maybe why zero of my friends or family has ever heard of Rivian. Example, Atlis Motors, a tiny EV start up does a weekly 2 minute update via email, YouTube, etc and in that EV truck survey from a while back either scored the same or ahead of Rivian. So a company that has raised maybe $12 million compared to $10 billion has better name recognition.

Rivian could do better, but I think it has little real impact either way during the startup phase. If they are "sold out" for a year, while focusing on building and delivering a great initial product, name recognition will go from zero to 125 (speed limited) in a month or two.

Look at the where the "well marketed" startup EV truck /car companies are today - Lordstown, Nikola, Fiskers, Lucid, etc. They are still widely unknown outside the enthusiast community. Scaringe has always wanted to under promise and over deliver. I prefer that over the Lordstown & Nikola scam schemes that have been exposed.

 

[wicked2112]

Had the pleasure to sit down with Rivian today and discuss lots of the topics that have come up on this post and on the forum overall.

First and foremost, this group is being heard and they are actively looking to address a large number of the open questions posted here. The main point that I tried to emphasize is the need/desire for more transparency and clarity. It's okay if they either do not have the final info to share on a particular topic or if they are just not ready to make their answer "official". But having some sort of view into when that will come is what is most desired, as what causes most of the debates here is due to lack of visibility which leads to assumptions being made. I believe this was heard loud and clear.

I was very impressed with the homework the team has done between monitoring the boards, monitoring Customer Service chat sessions, and documenting Guide conversations where those have started. This team gets a huge A+ when it comes to attention to details...and if they are taking this much effort on their customers I cannot wait to see the finished product when it rolls off the assembly lines.

More to come, but wanted to give you all a quick update.

Updated with answers & notes:

Couple of quick hits...

First, the following is my best recollection and interpretation of what was said...I promise I am not embellishing anything below, but that being said, take it with a grain of salt if I misheard or misremembered something.

They are planning on doing more outreach like they have recently (DuckTruck's factory tour, my lunch, etc.). They have a number of ways that they are looking to engage with pre-order holders leading up to AND THROUGH launch deliveries.

Not all of the info we are asking for is final-final...and instead of putting out near final info out there, they rather wait and get it right...we all know there are some of us who would hang them if they said mileage would be 350 miles and then it came in at 340 miles later. I do not blame them for this whatsoever.

We spoke a lot about the info that is being communicated...cadence of info, what the info is, who delivers the info. As to be expected this will be a constantly evolving process. I shared my personal opinion that right now the pre-order holders have typical early adopter mentality (give me as much info as possible to consume and then give me fancy, polished videos later). Believe the more polished materials will be useful later when you are trying to convert people who are just hearing about Rivian. Right now everyone is data hungry and in the absence of data we all have a tendency to start making assumptions that fit our own narratives (positive or negative).

As expected, there are strangers among us. Think we all realize this, but not everyone here is a pre-order holder...there are competitors, industry people, Rivian employees, general trolls, etc. They know this...believe we all know this...interesting to hear that they are aware of it nonetheless.

The conversation was great though...learned a lot about his journey...what he is hoping to personally accomplish...what the company is looking to accomplish. A lot of the convo was around my thinking on this or that...agree with them or not, here are some of my opinions that I shared...

• set a timeline for when we can expect info...if there is a reason to not publish EPA numbers just yet, say so and let us know when we can expect them...start with a month, then tell us what week, and then release...I think most of us are okay with waiting for certain pieces of data to come but we want to know when to expect them so we arent hitting refresh on message boards like this all day/night
• in regards to boards I asked if there were plans to have an "official" message board at some point...was told it is something they are having conversations about and asked my opinion...I responded that I believed at some point there should be an official message board so that users had a place to meet, interact, and learn from one another. In terms of timing I said that I didnt think it was necessary until they were at a point where most all pre-orders had been fulfilled and potential new customers were coming to the site to find out more...we WILL be and ARE the biggest advocates for the brand
• along those lines I recommended having official "ambassadors" on this (and other) boards...those of us who do have Guides and are also passionate about helping out others with the info they have. Saw a lot of that on this very post...people would list a question they wanted me to ask and someone else on the board was able to post the answer as the info is out there but maybe we all just dont know where to find it or need help to understand it
• "s00n" did come up...they hear our agitation and have taken it to heart...it was never done to ruffle our feathers, it was just the best answer to give at the time as the answers were/are coming soon...i recommended a s00n shirt be produced and sold to acknowledge that we all get it
• discussed the criteria that will determine the order in which vehicles will be produced and we will receive...nothing surprising here...configuration, location, order date (which is NOT discernable by any number that you are able to get regardless of how early you ordered).
• mentioned that I am in the boat of being okay with more than one color if it gets me the car any earlier...sounds like most of us have stated the same/similar and one of their concerns is if an official order is published at some point it throws off the numbers as too many people would swap their configurations to match and the planning is well underway already
• "launch green" is actively discussed internally as to whether or not it should have come first based on the naming or if it just should have been called something like Limited Edition Green to not set the improper expectation that it was first off the line
• discussed my experiences with taking possession of a Model 3 very early on in launch and how that process played out...what was good, what was bad, what I thought was fine but could be improved
• discussed how this process will be difficult for many as there arent traditional dealerships so there are many of us who will see a certain color or even the vehicle itself for the first time in person when we are picking ours up...something that will be a hard pill for some to swallow and something that some of us have done in the past (myself in that latter group with the Model 3)
• ::edit:: one more thing...they get that the configurator needs a little work as it doesnt represent all of the colors in the most accurate way...i think we will see this updated prior to deliveries (my opinion on that part)

I think it's easy for us to forget that no matter how successful they have been thus far, they are still a start up and things evolve quickly when you are growing as fast as they are (literally hiring hundreds and thousands of people over the past couple of years since they have come out of stealth mode).

I'm sure there are some things that I am forgetting right now and will fill in more as I remember or find out more.

Extra big thank you to both my guide and my companion for lunch today...you both are great examples of why I would someday hope to join the team there as well.

Added:

I did forget one part...at one point we were discussing how the used car market is absolutely insane right now and how not knowing exactly when I will get my R1T has left me in a bit of a pickle. The price I have been offered for my existing car has gone from ~$12-14K 6 weeks ago to $18-22K now...something I would be inclined to take if I knew just how long we would be a 1-car household for. The uncertainty of knowing a more exact delivery date has ripple effects to other decisions that I have to make. They found this to be an interesting perspective and said that they would take it back to the team to discuss. Nothing may come of it, but it could also spark a change in the internal thinking/actions as well.

Great read and THANK YOU for sharing!

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