Amazon's Alexa Collects More of Your Data Than Any Other Smart Assistant

Joel

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Third time's the charm:

https://www.ic3.gov/Media/PDF/AnnualReport/2020_IC3Report.pdf

If you look on p. 6, you'll see the breakdown of the time 5 crime types over the past few years, big jumps in several of them. Phishing is the big one. Just takes one distracted Rivian employee, and who knows what access hackers could get.
For this reason all collected data should not be tied to the individual or vin. Which I believe is currently the way Tesla logs.
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CommodoreAmiga

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For this reason all collected data should not be tied to the individual or vin. Which I believe is currently the way Tesla logs.
Tesla can associate data to a specific VIN and user profile. When a crash occurs they analyze the data and have even made public disclosures of data when they believe it vindicates their technology and shifts blame to the driver.
 

SANZC02

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Tesla can associate data to a specific VIN and user profile. When a crash occurs they analyze the data and have even made public disclosures of data when they believe it vindicates their technology and shifts blame to the driver.
This is true, there are many other things listed in the Rivian privacy policy as well that Tesla does. A couple are it knows what car is charging. It knows where your car is because you can see it in the app with current speed and direction of travel. It identifies it fromthe app to see if there are any available options for you.

For Tesla to say they don’t identify the data by vehicle is misleading at best.
 

C.R. Rivian

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It seems like other than taking your SIM card out (if you can find it) and killing WiFi connection, you have no way of stopping most of this data collection and sharing. Even then, during an over the air update you may lose control.

If you read the policy thinking, these are nice guys and nothing will go wrong, it all sounds reasonable. But if you watch the news, read history books where nice guys eventually turn greedy and security breaches happen regularly, then the policy looks wide open with not much choice or protection for owner. Tesla is doing much of this already as well. I wonder how much of this car Manufacturers can get away with in Europe.

Any information that can not be processed by my car and have to leave it (to the cloud) must require my consent. I should be able to set the settings so this type of information is always OK, this type requires consent per incident and this type is never OK. As is, Rivian is taking ownership of my data and although at this point it seems like it is mainly to improve products and to sell me more stuff, there is nothing to prevent sharing that data with an insurance company that could raise my rates or with a federal agency that may have a problem with me using my Rivian to rob a bank. What is the point of 3 second 0-60 if I can’t rob a bank? The only way you have privacy is if you own and keep your information None of which seems possible here. You can either have your Rivian or your privacy. My 18 year old truck will never betray my trust. Anywhere we go is between the two of us (as long as I leave my mobile phone behind).

privacy: “The quality or condition of being secluded from the presence or view of others”

Saying in a long winded way you have no privacy in a privacy policy is not the same as having one.
Hope you are waiting a launch vehicle and decide that you want no data collection and therefore drop out....maybe I'll get mine a little sooner. Seriously, unless you are a cash-only survivalist, welcome to the modern world.
 

Max

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Hope you are waiting a launch vehicle and decide that you want no data collection and therefore drop out....maybe I'll get mine a little sooner. Seriously, unless you are a cash-only survivalist, welcome to the modern world.
I will do what I can to help you out but it wouldn’t be much since I am at the end of the line. Even though I agree with your general point that there is no way to stop all tracking that is happening unless you live in a bunker, I am not ready to throw the towel with the defeatist attitude that we have no say in what happens to us and we just have to take it. If nothing has happened to you yet (or nothing you are aware of), it does not mean it won’t. The days that people programmed machines is almost over. Increasingly machines are programing machines and more importantly machines are programming people. Every time you drive by a speed camera, every time you click on a like button, your behavior is modified a little more. People think if their data can not be linked back to them (which it often can) and it is a part of aggregate data, it can not do them any harm. Of course this data can be use in many ways to our advantage and very often it initially is intended to but it can also be used to manipulate our decisions which often translate into profit and power for someone. At the time there is very little oversight or control to make sure that data is used properly. Once your every move has been recorded and analyzed to death by AI, free will is no longer a philosophical question. This may be inevitable but I would like to do what I can to slow it down. Every dollar you spend, every setting you ignore is a vote in what is OK and what is not. At the end, my vote may not make a difference but I vote my conscious anyway.
 

C.R. Rivian

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I will do what I can to help you out but it wouldn’t be much since I am at the end of the line. Even though I agree with your general point that there is no way to stop all tracking that is happening unless you live in a bunker, I am not ready to throw the towel with the defeatist attitude that we have no say in what happens to us and we just have to take it. If nothing has happened to you yet (or nothing you are aware of), it does not mean it won’t. The days that people programmed machines is almost over. Increasingly machines are programing machines and more importantly machines are programming people. Every time you drive by a speed camera, every time you click on a like button, your behavior is modified a little more. People think if their data can not be linked back to them (which it often can) and it is a part of aggregate data, it can not do them any harm. Of course this data can be use in many ways to our advantage and very often it initially is intended to but it can also be used to manipulate our decisions which often translate into profit and power for someone. At the time there is very little oversight or control to make sure that data is used properly. Once your every move has been recorded and analyzed to death by AI, free will is no longer a philosophical question. This may be inevitable but I would like to do what I can to slow it down. Every dollar you spend, every setting you ignore is a vote in what is OK and what is not. At the end, my vote may not make a difference but I vote my conscious anyway.
I don't think that free will is really a thing, but, of course, I am reminded of what Christopher Hitchens said when asked whether he acted as if there was free will, "Of course, I don't have a choice." Aside from that, I trust in the litigious nature of our society (really close with a lawyer for a tech firm). If they stretch user agreements too far or cause provable harm, they know that there are folks out there with class action on their minds...
 
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Max

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"Of course, I don't have a choice.”
Never heard of Christopher Hitchens but I totally get that. Even arguing against free will is the evidence in believing in it. Why would you want to change my mind if you didn’t believe there is a choice in the matter. Sense of regret or pride means you believe in free will as well (even if it does not exist). I tend to go off topic easily. Better stop before admin deletes me.
 

SuperSmash

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A lot of my concerns will be remedied if it is possible to mechanically deactivate the microphone. In my Rav4, there was a fuse that could be pulled that deactivates the data collection module, which doesn't actually stop it from collecting data, but kills the antenna for sending data. That was sufficient for my wants and concerns.

The microphone though is a big one. What about physicians who may discuss private HIPAA information, or other sorts of legally confidential content? I'd like to be able to do something that doesn't void the warranty (e.g. pull a fuse) to mechanically kill all microphone-related functionality, whether a fuse, or opening a panel and yanking out the microphone itself.
 

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A lot of my concerns will be remedied if it is possible to mechanically deactivate the microphone. In my Rav4, there was a fuse that could be pulled that deactivates the data collection module, which doesn't actually stop it from collecting data, but kills the antenna for sending data. That was sufficient for my wants and concerns.

The microphone though is a big one. What about physicians who may discuss private HIPAA information, or other sorts of legally confidential content? I'd like to be able to do something that doesn't void the warranty (e.g. pull a fuse) to mechanically kill all microphone-related functionality, whether a fuse, or opening a panel and yanking out the microphone itself.
If it's really a concern, what will people with classified information non disclosure agreements do... maybe they can't buy a Rivian since someone is always listening 😱
 

Speedrye

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If it's really a concern, what will people with classified information non disclosure agreements do... maybe they can't buy a Rivian since someone is always listening 😱
Don't think for a minute that foreign governments (and likely our own) aren't already doing this in a lot of vehicles.
ties-better-not-say-thator-the-government-29017747.png
 

kurtlikevonnegut

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Don't think for a minute that foreign governments (and likely our own) aren't already doing this in a lot of vehicles.
ties-better-not-say-thator-the-government-29017747.png
I do wonder what the intersection of people who are mad about a lack of AA capability and people who are concerned about Rivian's relationship with Amazon looks like.

If you are worried about Amazon collecting all kinds of data on you in your Rivian and currently use Android Auto, I have some bad news for you...
 

Max

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If it's really a concern, what will people with classified information non disclosure agreements do... maybe they can't buy a Rivian since someone is always listening 😱
When you visit a lot of defense contractor buildings, you will have to leave your phone behind. The issue in here should not be a binary thing; Rivian having these capabilities or not having them. The issue is owner having the option to turn them off reliability and independently of the vehicles primary functions. So that an owner who has less sensitive info or is less concerned about data collection can share more and others can limit or shut off those capabilities when they want and turn them back on when they need to.

It is not just about Rivian or Amazon having bad intentions or protecting company tech secrets. Just imagine a supreme court justice having an affair in his Rivian and Russians hack in and record the event.

Your car was a place you could have private conversations in and a lot of people that can afford a Rivian have secrets. It takes one exposed incident to have serious impact on that $80 billion valuation. Rivian would be wise to nip this in the bud in advance not as a reaction to an event.

Tesla sell you cars for $100K, use you and the hardware you own to collect data to develop FSD so it can sell it back to you for $10K. In the mean time, they try to charge you to replace the MCU they broke with overuse for all of this. Now everyone thinks this is OK.

I am not against progress. I am just pro choice.
 
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SuperSmash

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If you are worried about Amazon collecting all kinds of data on you in your Rivian and currently use Android Auto, I have some bad news for you...
For sure, which is why my smartphone never leaves my house (unless turned off and battery removed), it doesn't have a SIM card, has google services disabled (though the efficacy of that is debatable), and I use a prepaid flip phone on the road.

It's crazy and depressing how expensive and inconvenient it is to [attempt to] maintain privacy today; companies like Rivian should make sure to make it somewhat easy for people like me to do that rather than having to tear the vehicle apart and risk voiding warranty to do it. And to be clear, it isn't just Rivian--most new cars today are collecting and sending tons of data, even when you "opt out" of services; that's why I prefer having a simple way to mechanically deactivate microphones and such. Peace of mind for both privacy and warranty.

I am not against progress. I am just pro choice.
Exactly (along with the rest of your post giving excellent examples and reasons).
 

Ravenron

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If it's really a concern, what will people with classified information non disclosure agreements do... maybe they can't buy a Rivian since someone is always listening 😱
Maybe not discuss classified information in their car? Just a thought...:CWL:
 
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