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Amazon Van Impact on R1T & R1S Production?

Lil'O Annie

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I'm wondering how much of an impact the Amazon Van production is having on when we'll get our R1T or R1S. Considering the current battery and chip supply shortages, it has to be slowing production down for our vehicles, if Rivian is building the vans now...right? It was the first concern I had when I heard of Amazon's big 100K van order and investment in Rivian. At the same time, that order was a great boost for Rivian and strengthened the viability of the company, so it's a double-edged sword.

Also, IMO my personal need for the R1T is not as important to the planet, or all of us, as getting the ICE vans off the roads and replaced with electrics. So, I shouldn't be selfish about it.

Anyone heard/seen Amazon vans running around much out there? Or, know if they are being steadily produced at this time? FYI Found this recent video of a van in Seattle.
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trickflow

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To put it simply, there are more Rivian vans in that hands of Amazon than there are R1Ts in the hands of pre-order holders.

For every battery, computer (or any other shared component) that goes into the van will delay the delivery of a pre-order holder.

That is a fact.
 

boneil1

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it is a double edged sword like you said. Resources that are going into the vans are resources not going into our R1Ts and R1Ss. But. That also means more real world testing and data so we get a more refined product. I would rather they work out the problems with Amazon vans than customers have bad experiences.
 

kanundrum

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^^ All speculation really, different production lines, different suppliers could be for different 2170 cells etc. Motors could be COTS or in house developed. We don't really know much besides they are probably making a pre-prod test fleet for finalizing and delivering a design when the time comes.
 

Sean

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Yes, there will be some impact BUT the Amazon investment (equity + 100,00 orders) basically ensures that Rivian is financially secure. For a startup car company that means more to me than getting my R1 a little faster. It also lets Rivian order inventory at higher volumes which helps keep them from raising our prices. Net-net, its a huge positive for RIvian and us but the downside R1 output is not 100% of the production coming from the factory.
 

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Gshenderson

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DuckTruck

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Peashooter,

I'm guessing this might not sit well with you, but here goes....I googled the "Most predatory companies in the world" and did find Amazon high on most of various lists out there, along with Apple, Google, Tesla, Twitter, and a "Who's Who" of U.S. and global companies. It's actually quite an impressive list. (Full disclosure: I love Amazon and will continue to hold their stock). If our options include having Amazon and other sizable investors in our corner (including Ford, T. Rowe Price, BlackRock, Soros Fund Management LLC, Coatue, Fidelity Management & Research, and Baron Capital Group), count me in. If I start a company and have the choice of going it alone, or having major support, I'll take that kind of support any day, all day, and every day. To your points, I think there's 0% chance of Rivian not making our vehicles because any one of the investors is "driving company direction", and approximately the same chance that you'll lose your deposit.

The World, not just the world economy, has been an absolute $#!T-show this past 18 months from the effects of COVID-19 and all of the fallout it's had on manufacturing, shipping, living beings, etc., etc. We've never experienced anything like this in the last 100 years. When raw materials are no longer being mined and sourced, production slows or stops. When factories are closed, parts don't get made. When parts don't made, they don't get shipped. When parts don't get shipped, stuff doesn't get made.

Have we had agonizing delays? Yes, we have. Have we had less communication than this crowd expected? Absolutely! Used cars are selling at all-time high prices. Why? In part, the chips that run new cars are scarce and, therefore, new cars are difficult to complete and ship. The factories that manufacture these vehicles have run into many of the same roadblocks that are messing with Rivian. It's hard enough for legacy OEMs to battle these demons, but for a startup, it's even more difficult. Especially one planning it's first major product rollout in the middle of this $#!T-storm.

As painful as this wait has been, I'd rather have Rivian start the manufacturing process for one of their biggest investors and possibly improve the process before building mine (granted, my patience has limits, but I'm nowhere close to that limit). I'd like that done rather than rush them through the factory and out into a huge carnival tent to fix some of what went wrong in the factory because of promised production numbers. Again, I'd like all that to happen before shipping it to a customer with the hopes that it works when it arrives. I want a Rembrandt, not a Picasso. No offense to Pablo, but cars are better when they're symmetrical.

By the way, every company that makes a sizable investment in a startup company will naturally have a say in how that company operates throughout the lifetime of their investment. That power gets diminished when no one investor holds the lion's share of that outside investment. I know you, and everyone here knows that, but Amazon has about as much of a chance of driving that bus as they do of being the first private company to reach space.
? ✌

OK, now back to the real fireworks. Be safe and fun!
 

C.R. Rivian

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Well, do the right thing and give up your place in the queue...we'll all respect you for it :cool: and look forward to getting ours...
 

DuckTruck

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Peashooter,

Thank you for articulating your observations so well. I knew some of this from before, but had not heard the details of their cloning of goods from the same factory and giving them their own name. Now I know why the reviews on products can be so Jekyll and Hyde. I didn't know some people were getting the actual proprietary goods while others were actually complaining about the cheap knockoffs that they chose, wittingly, or not. I now understand what the clones represent and will continue to avoid them. Your brand name and profits take a big hit when someone buys the fake to save a small amount and associates it's poor quality with your brand. I'm not sure all that read the reviews on the Amazon website understand the cloning issue.

This tale actually makes Walmart sound humble, caring, and benevolent by comparison.

A few years ago, I was looking at something on Amazon and had a few questions about the product. Finding the family-owned company online, I called them and, of course, they were able to answer my question and we had a wonderful conversation. It was almost like a face-to-face visit over a cup of coffee. I bought the product from them directly for less than listed on Amazon. I was a little dumbfounded that it would be less, and they simply stated that it was "because of the lack of fees". They said most of their sales were through Amazon, but they still sold directly.

Looking back on it now, they likely sell only through Amazon and directly, rather than through any brick and mortar stores. Dont know if that's part of the arrangement, but that could put a vendor in a very tough spot. I'm sure that does save them some expense and hassle, but at what cost? I likely would have asked more questions if they had said anything Ill about Amazon, but they were somewhat kind, if not benign, in their comments.

They were very thankful for the purchase and threw in the bulk shipping for free. The great conversation and complete knowledge of the goods they make made me a direct customer for future purchases.

As a Prime customer of, and an investor in Amazon, I'll continue to use them for many goods and services, but after writing this, I'll lower my hopes for a call from Jeff to go for a ride with him in his rocket.

I truly appreciate you for giving me your feedback after my reply to you. Many people may have just gone silent, blocked me, or would have been unkind in their reply. I like the route you took.

I hope to meet one day and compare our thoughts about Rivian, Amazon, IPOs, IPAs, and life in general.

Be well!
 
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