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Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging?

Robin

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I had this internal debate the other day. Being hourly, I can work as much OT as needed or desired.

I was sitting at a free charger early in the morning instead of heading to work. I had about 50%, but since no one was at the bank of chargers, I figured I'd giver. I sat there for 30-40 minutes drinking my coffee and relaxing, then the caffeine kicked in, my brain started working and I shook my head, "what the fuck am I doing?" I lost what, $150 to save 15?
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Robin

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We leased the Mercedes EQB for the $20K discount off sticker, not the free charging. :cool:

I didn't even know about the free EA until after I had signed the paperwork. They do limit to 30 minutes though. After that I think there is a grace period and then it starts to bill you an idle fee. I tried it once and since the battery is so small in that car I was full before I could even finish my BigMac!
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Scottm

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BMW is giving 2 years free EA, but limits it to 30 minute sessions also. Wish they all limited the time charging for free. Picking up our i5 M60 tomorrow and mostly charge at home, so not much value for the free charging unless we go out of town. Hoping to get some free then!
Yes this is a much better way to offer free charging. Then once they learn they can get a lot more juice in 30 minutes if they pull in at 30% instead of 70% SOC they will learn to charge more efficiently.

The free charging doesn’t bother me, it’s the fact that I don’t think a lot of these people understand the charging curve and how much less efficient it is DC fast charging to a high SOC. It’s like choosing to travel long distance on local roads when there is a freeway going exactly where you need to go. I’m pretty sure most of the people causing this congestion are not on long distance road trips.
 

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I am the first to admit, I know nothing about charging networks, or, pretty much anything regarding that. I have a L2 (50A) installed in my house (that I installed myself), and I plug it in daily (ABC). I have a ChargePoint Account to use as a backup. I use roughly 17% SOC/22kWh driving to and from work. It costs me less than $3.00 a day to charge at home (Love my $0.0995 kWh). There are free chargers in my area, one about 1/2 mile from my home, and the other is about 2-3 miles away. I just dont see the need. Both of them are barely, if ever, used by anyone (My ChargePoint app shows me what vehicle has used them in the last week).

1706906321897.png


My demand (highest energy day) charge is for 1/20/24, which is the first day I charged my S at home, SOC was at 34%, and I charged it to 80%. So it makes sense.
1706906665995.png

1706906680257.png


As for solar, I have a LARGE roof, and could easily generate well over my need. I have checked with various solar companies. At the end of the day, it doesnt make sense. ROI would be MANY years. I have to upgrade my entire electrical panel, to include the wiring physically in the house, plus the Solar itself.

I dont have $115,000 to install solar and upgrade my electrical panel. Thats more than I owe on the house, and I rather pay off the house first. And to top that, after 25 years, I would have only saved approximately $65000. Sorry the math dont work, the ROI is not even in eyesight.

What I do get is, my time is worth something. I am not waiting anywhere to charge unless I am RoadTripping (Range anxiety for me).. And even then, I plan on renting a ICE, or flying. If its just me and my wife, flying.. But I am a family of 8 currently (4 adults, and 4 kids), and renting a van makes more sense.
To me it’s more than ROI. I’m a republican but it’s hard to put a dollar on the environment. If I couldn’t get home insurance. I would be scared. My 38 panels cost me $25,000. So far I have produced 90Mwh. I installed in 2017. I hear newer panels have a much higher efficiency. They don’t stop producing. And don’t forget the impact on the value of your home if you ever sell.
 

Dustyshades

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Never be surprised by how much people undervalue their shadow cost of time. :)
Go look at the ID.4 subreddit some time and read all the comments from people bragging about how much they’re “saving” by never charging at home and sitting in a Walmart parking lot for 40 minutes twice a week.
 

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emoore

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I am the first to admit, I know nothing about charging networks, or, pretty much anything regarding that. I have a L2 (50A) installed in my house (that I installed myself), and I plug it in daily (ABC). I have a ChargePoint Account to use as a backup. I use roughly 17% SOC/22kWh driving to and from work. It costs me less than $3.00 a day to charge at home (Love my $0.0995 kWh). There are free chargers in my area, one about 1/2 mile from my home, and the other is about 2-3 miles away. I just dont see the need. Both of them are barely, if ever, used by anyone (My ChargePoint app shows me what vehicle has used them in the last week).

1706906321897.png


My demand (highest energy day) charge is for 1/20/24, which is the first day I charged my S at home, SOC was at 34%, and I charged it to 80%. So it makes sense.
1706906665995.png

1706906680257.png


As for solar, I have a LARGE roof, and could easily generate well over my need. I have checked with various solar companies. At the end of the day, it doesnt make sense. ROI would be MANY years. I have to upgrade my entire electrical panel, to include the wiring physically in the house, plus the Solar itself.

I dont have $115,000 to install solar and upgrade my electrical panel. Thats more than I owe on the house, and I rather pay off the house first. And to top that, after 25 years, I would have only saved approximately $65000. Sorry the math dont work, the ROI is not even in eyesight.

What I do get is, my time is worth something. I am not waiting anywhere to charge unless I am RoadTripping (Range anxiety for me).. And even then, I plan on renting a ICE, or flying. If its just me and my wife, flying.. But I am a family of 8 currently (4 adults, and 4 kids), and renting a van makes more sense.
You trying to install 50 kW of solar panels or something? There’s no way it costs that much for solar and upgraded panel.
 
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emoore

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To me it’s more than ROI. I’m a republican but it’s hard to put a dollar on the environment. If I couldn’t get home insurance. I would be scared. My 38 panels cost me $25,000. So far I have produced 90Mwh. I installed in 2017. I hear newer panels have a much higher efficiency. They don’t stop producing. And don’t forget the impact on the value of your home if you ever sell.
Exactly. They produce for a long time. Even if they are warranted for 20-30 years they will still produce after that.

I installed my 24 panels in 2018 and it was $15k after rebates. While panels are slightly more efficient, the way the panel companies are getting more power per panel is by making bigger panels. Mine are 325W panels but newer ones are over 400 W but bigger in surface area.
 

madgrey

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People assign a disproportionately high value to free stuff.

Then there's the sunk cost fallacy. People stick around longer than they should not recognizing the benefit of giving up. I bet some of these people were hoping the line would move a bit quicker.

Plus, maybe it's fun to brag to your ICE friends that you are driving for "free"!

Nothing really to do with education. Seems like basic psychology to me.
 

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We love the convenience of charging our R1T at home. We most often charge overnight. I wouldn't care if free charging were two blocks away as I would still charge at the house. This convenience is what makes our EV experience great.

Brian
 

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TollKeeper

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You trying to install 50 kW of solar panels or something? There’s no way it costs that much for solar and upgraded panel.
I could lower it by 30k if I didnt install a battery backup..

But its still a lot.
This is a Tesla Kit, for Solar Panels, where I want the Solar Shingle..
Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706982942234


If I were to build it to meet my current needs, with no future proofing, it brings it down some, but I would rather have the future energy demand met..
Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706984783923


Plus Power Wall
Total is....
Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706983843472


Plus electrical panel, 3000 Square foot house that would also need wiring to bring to code (Built in 1978).

As I said, I want the shingles, which would bring the cost up a unknown amount.

There might be Federal and State tax incentives, but I dont count on those, as I didnt even qualify for the federal tax credit when I bought the Rivian. I did for the state thou.
 
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emoore

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I could lower it by 30k if I didnt install a battery backup..

But its still a lot.
This is a Tesla Kit, for Solar Panels, where I want the Solar Shingle..
1706982942234.png


Plus Power Wall
Total is....
1706983843472.png


Plus electrical panel, 3000 Square foot house that would also need wiring to bring to code (Built in 1978).

As I said, I want the shingles, which would bring the cost up a unknown amount.

There might be Federal and State tax incentives, but I dont count on those, as I didnt even qualify for the federal tax credit when I bought the Rivian. I did for the state thou.
You get 30% off all if that if you have the federal tax burden to cover it. That would bring it down to $62k. And power walls probably won’t pay for themselves. So just solar would be $45k. And that’s for a gigantic sized system. That’s less than $2/watt.
 
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TollKeeper

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You get 30% off all if that if you have the federal tax burden to cover it. That would bring it down to $62k. And power walls probably won’t pay for themselves. So just solar would be $45k. And that’s for a gigantic sized system. That’s less than $2/watt.
I updated my post above when you posted that.. For a slightly smaller, but only meeting needs system, with no future proofing.

I likely wont qualify for the federal as I DONT have the tax burden. As I said, I didnt even have it for my Rivian.

Edit: Yes the tax credit would carry over, it would take 10 years for me to get it all back. I already have a Tax Credit pending, and has been pending for 4 years.. So I dont think I would ever get it back. I simply dont have the tax burden. I did adjust my deductions for this year so I could start reclaiming those funds. However, my income is... Well compared to some others here, its low at 68k before taxes. My normal deductions took 4000ish for Federal Tax. Its going to take me another 5-6 years to claim my already pending amount.
 
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rraj2k81

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It's not just EV owners/buyers but it's also EV Manufacturers including the likes of Tesla and Rivian, that is to blame for this mess.

They do not make an effort to educate their buyers, about how to use an EV, how to charge, the benefits of L2 home charging, making/providing recommendations for home charging, when/where/how to use DCFC, etc.

They just throw free DCFCharging into all their vehicles and throw them into the wild without any real education. The amount of people who get geniunely surprised and experience a light bulb moment, when I explain to them how much convenient, cheap and fast having a L2 charger at home is, is an example of where EV makers have been failing in BEV adoption. All the negative DCFC news and public perception is also killing their ability to sell these vehicles.

The first thing they should be doing is, having some kind of an information session for new ev buyers to educate them on how to use these new EVs and make them understand their vehicles and how to use them.

And second stop giving FREE DCFC charging and provide free or financial incentives to install L2 charging at their homes.
 

emoore

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I updated my post above when you posted that.. For a slightly smaller, but only meeting needs system, with no future proofing.

I likely wont qualify for the federal as I DONT have the tax burden. As I said, I didnt even have it for my Rivian.

Edit: Yes the tax credit would carry over, it would take 10 years for me to get it all back. I already have a Tax Credit pending, and has been pending for 4 years.. So I dont think I would ever get it back. I simply dont have the tax burden. I did adjust my deductions for this year so I could start reclaiming those funds. However, my income is... Well compared to some others here, its low at 68k before taxes. My normal deductions took 4000ish for Federal Tax. Its going to take me another 5-6 years to claim my already pending amount.
Personally I would take no taxes for the next decade or two.
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