Sponsored

Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging?

R1Thor

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Aug 9, 2023
Threads
3
Messages
549
Reaction score
642
Location
Lancaster, PA
Vehicles
23QM R1T, Limestone + Ocean Coast, 21" & UBS
Occupation
Mechanical Engineering Lead
Clubs
 
I had this internal debate the other day. Being hourly, I can work as much OT as needed or desired.

I was sitting at a free charger early in the morning instead of heading to work. I had about 50%, but since no one was at the bank of chargers, I figured I'd giver. I sat there for 30-40 minutes drinking my coffee and relaxing, then the caffeine kicked in, my brain started working and I shook my head, "what the fuck am I doing?" I lost what, $150 to save 15?

...<Does math.>

So, $150 for 30 minutes of time means you're making $300 hourly rate?
Even if that's the OT you're claiming at time and a half, that's <more math..> $200 an hour regular rate!

So...is your company hiring?!? [and do I need to be qualified??] :D
Sponsored

 

MountainBikeDude

Well-Known Member
First Name
Adam
Joined
Jun 20, 2019
Threads
39
Messages
1,868
Reaction score
3,824
Location
Vancouver
Vehicles
2023 El Cap Quad Motor R1T (Selling the Xterra)
Clubs
 
...<Does math.>

So, $150 for 30 minutes of time means you're making $300 hourly rate?
Even if that's the OT you're claiming at time and a half, that's <more math..> $200 an hour regular rate!

So...is your company hiring?!? [and do I need to be qualified??] :D
Hour total. Screw around 40 minute charge, 15-20 minute drive to work. 75hr at DT.
 

jeeden

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jeremy
Joined
Oct 27, 2020
Threads
38
Messages
614
Reaction score
914
Location
Northern VA
Vehicles
2017 Ford Explorer Limited, 2015 Ford Mustang GT
Occupation
Project Manager
Clubs
 
Have you seen the Costco gas lines? Same mentality
Yup... and...

  • wait for samples in costco
  • deal with trac phones / loading and managing cheap phones and cards with minutes
  • skip subway gates
  • .... the list goes on

that said, I had the same experience on a road trip in the suburbs of New Jersey. The number of people that were regulars at the EA chargers in parking lots with free charging that lived just up the street in single-family homes was crazy.

I'm always amazed at how many people do long, I mean really long road trips. I get it if the road trip is the adventure, or you want to bring a ton of stuff, but people driving a full size pickup or SUV from Arkansas for a Disney trip or something, that has to be multiple grand in fuel alone not to mention the time when you could just fly, but you see it all the time.
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
27
Messages
5,062
Reaction score
8,609
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
Now calculate how many hours you wasted sitting in that line and multiply it by your hourly-equivalent salary to see how much time you've wasted by getting your "free" charging that you didn't need. My very crude back of the envelope calculation suggests at best you broke even assuming you didn't have to go out of your way to drive to the charger and you didn't have to wait in a line...yields around 8.5k kWh at an average charging speed of (generously) 175 kW gives around 50 hours.
Different people value it differently. Before I retired I would swing by to charge my Tesla for free on the way to work a couple of days a week. I would grab a coffee and check emails while it charged. Was on salary so no lost wages, now I’m retired so if out in the car I stop at one of the SC around my house to charge. 80k miles on the car, at the going rate at my house of 23 cents a kW and using SC 95% of the time saved 6k, at 36 cents over 9k. To me it was worth the time to charge especially since the chargers are right by the house.

Have Solar now to charge the R1S at home, ROI for the solar install is around 42 months, more than half way through that time and still tracks but I still use the SC for the Tesla. Just took the Tesla on a 6500 mile trip, saved me 1k in charges that it would cost in the R1S.
 

SRO

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Mar 21, 2023
Threads
1
Messages
132
Reaction score
64
Location
Carson City nv
Vehicles
R1T
Occupation
retired
Adding solar is also not economical for a good portion of the US population. Most people don’t have a big enough tax credit, enough sunny weather, or enough roof space to justify the cost. I’m lucky that I do have solar, but its still not “free” charging because the installation was thousands of $$$$$
A fraction of the cost of a Rivian. Obviously people that have a place for solar and don’t do it didn’t get the truck for the environment.
 

Sponsored

zefram47

Well-Known Member
First Name
Aaron
Joined
Feb 6, 2022
Threads
13
Messages
1,926
Reaction score
3,016
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
R1T, C6 Corvette GS
Occupation
Software Engineer
Clubs
 
Different people value it differently. Before I retired I would swing by to charge my Tesla for free on the way to work a couple of days a week. I would grab a coffee and check emails while it charged. Was on salary so no lost wages, now I’m retired so if out in the car I stop at one of the SC around my house to charge. 80k miles on the car, at the going rate at my house of 23 cents a kW and using SC 95% of the time saved 6k, at 36 cents over 9k. To me it was worth the time to charge especially since the chargers are right by the house.

Have Solar now to charge the R1S at home, ROI for the solar install is around 42 months, more than half way through that time and still tracks but I still use the SC for the Tesla. Just took the Tesla on a 6500 mile trip, saved me 1k in charges that it would cost in the R1S.
Not even talking about actual lost wages. At some point in life you realize that your time is still worth something. I spose if you can do something like reading or catching up on YouTube that you'd be doing anyway maybe it's worth the hassle, but definitely not to me. I'm still in the camp that says rather than focusing on in-city DCFC we need ubiquitous AC charging so that you can just opportunity charge at nearly every stop you make during the day. Get enough of that and most people would never need to use a DC charger unless they were on a road trip. Much cheaper to install and maintain AC hardware than DC as well. Throw in the European style of carrying your own cable to plug into the charger for AC and the ROI is even better for site hosts.
 

E-lectric

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Threads
2
Messages
75
Reaction score
73
Location
Brevard, NC
Vehicles
22 Rivian R1T El Cap w/ 22s , 24 BMW i5 M60
Clubs
 
BMW is giving 2 years free EA, but limits it to 30 minute sessions also. Wish they all limited the time charging for free. Picking up our i5 M60 tomorrow and mostly charge at home, so not much value for the free charging unless we go out of town. Hoping to get some free then!
 

irfan

Active Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2021
Threads
0
Messages
33
Reaction score
33
Location
Ohio
Vehicles
Range Rover
Not every hour of my day is billable and I seriously doubt a significant percentage of people are losing billable hours by sitting at a charger. Your free time is NOT worth your paid time. It’s time spent where you would be earning $0. It’s faulty logic used by companies to try to inflate the value of their product. Tesla promoted this heavily when they launched into their TCO calculator. Pumping gas doesn’t cost me lose wages. It’s annoying to do, but I don’t make less in a year because of pumping gas. Sitting at a charger isn’t costing people

Now calculate how many hours you wasted sitting in that line and multiply it by your hourly-equivalent salary to see how much time you've wasted by getting your "free" charging that you didn't need. My very crude back of the envelope calculation suggests at best you broke even assuming you didn't have to go out of your way to drive to the charger and you didn't have to wait in a line...yields around 8.5k kWh at an average charging speed of (generously) 175 kW gives around 50 hours.
 

Spork8

Well-Known Member
First Name
Trevor
Joined
Feb 18, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
45
Reaction score
42
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
Vehicles
2022 R1T
Occupation
Engineer
Clubs
 
Maybe I interpreted OP's original post differently than some. I understand the question and I think there's a lot going on so it's tough to gauge.

Most people will charge where their in vehicle navigation shows that they can charge. They likely have never heard of Plug Share or ABRP.

A lot of people are cheap, free is free, and if there's an expiration on when free charging ends they might feel inclined to use it even if it costs them their own time.

Bad news reporting of EVs (like this beauty), affects people's opinions of charging networks. Kind of like when news broke of EVgo charging someone's card for some other persons charging. Not being able to do the math in their head might scare them from chargers with time based pricing, connection fees, idle fees, etc..

The current OEMs do not educate customers on the various charging networks or how to charge, Rivian included. I know I never asked, but they never offered up any knowledge during the purchase process. So I can only imagine the confusion the general public might have is valid
 

endress14

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Threads
16
Messages
181
Reaction score
351
Location
CO
Vehicles
Grand Cherokee, XC 90 recharge
Occupation
TBD
A fraction of the cost of a Rivian. Obviously people that have a place for solar and don’t do it didn’t get the truck for the environment.
But not a fraction of other EVs, which is what what was pointed out.
 

Sponsored

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
Threads
12
Messages
748
Reaction score
704
Location
Brighton, CO
Vehicles
24 Rivian R1S, 04 GMC Envoy XUV, 05 Saturn Relay 3
Occupation
Ast HR Director
I am the first to admit, I know nothing about charging networks, or, pretty much anything regarding that. I have a L2 (50A) installed in my house (that I installed myself), and I plug it in daily (ABC). I have a ChargePoint Account to use as a backup. I use roughly 17% SOC/22kWh driving to and from work. It costs me less than $3.00 a day to charge at home (Love my $0.0995 kWh). There are free chargers in my area, one about 1/2 mile from my home, and the other is about 2-3 miles away. I just dont see the need. Both of them are barely, if ever, used by anyone (My ChargePoint app shows me what vehicle has used them in the last week).

Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706906321897


My demand (highest energy day) charge is for 1/20/24, which is the first day I charged my S at home, SOC was at 34%, and I charged it to 80%. So it makes sense.
Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706906665995

Rivian R1T R1S Am I missing something... are people uneducated about EVs and won over by free charging? 1706906680257


As for solar, I have a LARGE roof, and could easily generate well over my need. I have checked with various solar companies. At the end of the day, it doesnt make sense. ROI would be MANY years. I have to upgrade my entire electrical panel, to include the wiring physically in the house, plus the Solar itself.

I dont have $115,000 to install solar and upgrade my electrical panel. Thats more than I owe on the house, and I rather pay off the house first. And to top that, after 25 years, I would have only saved approximately $65000. Sorry the math dont work, the ROI is not even in eyesight.

What I do get is, my time is worth something. I am not waiting anywhere to charge unless I am RoadTripping (Range anxiety for me).. And even then, I plan on renting a ICE, or flying. If its just me and my wife, flying.. But I am a family of 8 currently (4 adults, and 4 kids), and renting a van makes more sense.
 
Last edited:

Underthe110

Active Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 11, 2023
Threads
3
Messages
29
Reaction score
54
Location
South Orange county
Vehicles
R1T
Occupation
Longshoreman
My home charger is a little slow, which is usually no biggie. A while back I thought I’d go quick charge my R1T at that same mall. What a scene. The queue, the people standing outside their cars waiting. I’m not sure I could have parked at one of the slower chargers because of the queue. I ended up at the chargers at the Spectrum- no chaos
 
OP
OP

Ngkgb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2022
Threads
39
Messages
445
Reaction score
475
Location
United States
Vehicles
Rivian R1T
My home charger is a little slow, which is usually no biggie. A while back I thought I’d go quick charge my R1T at that same mall. What a scene. The queue, the people standing outside their cars waiting. I’m not sure I could have parked at one of the slower chargers because of the queue. I ended up at the chargers at the Spectrum- no chaos
It’s a true cluster F. Next time go to the Amazon fresh. Worse case you wait 30 min for 30 minutes free of 50kwh fast charger. Best case there’s nobody there and you charge right away.
 

Underthe110

Active Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 11, 2023
Threads
3
Messages
29
Reaction score
54
Location
South Orange county
Vehicles
R1T
Occupation
Longshoreman
It’s a true cluster F. Next time go to the Amazon fresh. Worse case you wait 30 min for 30 minutes free of 50kwh fast charger. Best case there’s nobody there and you charge right away.
Thanks, forgot about that charger. I drive by it all the time 🙄. Luckily I don’t need public charging very often
 
 




Top