Alternative Energies Push: From Hydrogen to Better Batteries - With More Info Added

Coast2Coast

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
201
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca./Odawara, Jpn
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
1981 Volvo wagon; 2006 Tacoma SR5; 2009 Toyota Prius
I didn't know where to put this thread. At first, I thought I'd stick it into earlier battery threads, but they're weeks or months old and I worried new information would get lost by appending it to old threads. So, a new thread.

I'm not a chemist, engineer, scientist, technician or anything like that. (Just a retired business professor.) What impresses me most about Rivian is its willingness to take a great leap into the unknown, but do so methodically, thoroughly, patiently and reliably. Step by step. It's almost a contradiction in strategy.

Build the first all electric truck with terrific range, fantastic performance, phenomenal capabilities and unsurpassed utility. Wow, no one had done this when Rivian started out eleven years ago or even when Rivian announced at the LA Auto Show in 2018. Instead of bragging about what Rivian was going to be, RJ and his team set about making it happen, step by step, solving problem after problem, and doing the work itself because, at the time, no one else was trying to do what Rivian was.

Now Rivian's in the news big-time and competitors are coming out of woodwork, but RJ and the team are still low key, dedicated, persevering yet visionary with their eyes firmly on the ball. I don't think you can overestimate how impressive that is, and I can't wait until Rivians start rolling off the lines at Normal. Once Rivians are on the road and have been widely reviewed, RJ and the company's stock will blow sky high (skier high?).

But and, here's the point of a new thread, alternative energy technologies are pushing ahead at a rapid pace. In thinking about how to categorize them, it might make sense to classify them like this: 1) lithium ion and related battery chemistries; 2) solid state and non-lithium battery chemistries; 3) hydrogen and other non-battery based energies.

We could gather various threads on these topics and aggregate everything into one super-thread, but I'll leave that to the administrator to decide. For now, here are a few new sources of information categorized into the threefold scheme.

1. Lithium ion and related battery chemistries. (In spite of CATL's success, it's in a cat fight with Japanese, S. Korean and other Chinese battery companies for leadership in the industry. I wish new energy technologies/green new deal was a cornerstone of N. American government policies.)
https://insideevs.com/news/428508/catl-2-million-km-battery-not-tesla/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/battery-billionaire-key-tesla-future-210015627.html

2. Solid state and non-lithium battery chemistries.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/?post_type=news&p=2677779

3. Hydrogen and other non-battery based energies.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4357682-chokepoint-of-hydrogen-economy

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensil...gsaw-piece-for-green-microgrids/#79ccca955a74
 
Last edited:

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
The problems with hydrogen are hat it is
1) Dirty
2) Energy inefficient and therefore
3) Expensive

If number 3) can be eliminated then no one will care about 1 or 2. Of course the most probable way of making it inexpensive is to hydrolyze water with renewable energy and that makes it clean at the same time.
 
OP
Coast2Coast

Coast2Coast

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
253
Reaction score
201
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca./Odawara, Jpn
First Name
Mark
Vehicles
1981 Volvo wagon; 2006 Tacoma SR5; 2009 Toyota Prius
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
I added several new links to the initial thread starter and I'll continue to do so for a while.
 

DucRider

Well-Known Member
First Name
Gary
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
201
Reaction score
149
Location
rRegon
First Name
Gary
Vehicles
Clarity Electric
The problems with hydrogen are hat it is
1) Dirty
2) Energy inefficient and therefore
3) Expensive

If number 3) can be eliminated then no one will care about 1 or 2. Of course the most probable way of making it inexpensive is to hydrolyze water with renewable energy and that makes it clean at the same time.
I'd put #1 as: Can't fuel at home/work and have to go to a station

Being able to leave everyday with a full "tank" is a big advantage - but a problem for those that do not have the ability to charge at home/work. For those people hydrogen will solve the "takes too long" issue that all but the newest/fastest charging vehicles are capable of.

And as to creating hydrogen from renewable energy - putting that energy into the grid is more efficient. Hydrogen is a very inefficient battery.
 

ajdelange

Well-Known Member
First Name
A. J.
Joined
Aug 1, 2019
Messages
542
Reaction score
220
Location
Virginia/Quebec
First Name
A. J.
Vehicles
Tesla X Extended Range Plus 2019, Lexus, Landcruiser, SR5
Occupation
EE Retired
Guess you missed the main point. If the renewable energy is cheap no one cares if it is being used inefficiently. Think of the history of petrol.

I enthusiastically agree that daily charging at home is one of the biggest pluses of BEV ownership but were hydrogen to become cheaper than petrol and comparable to battery charging costs (per mile driven) and the fill up no more burdensome than filling with petrol then I think I'd be quite content to use hydrogen as an alternative to gas especially had I never experienced at home charging.

And I should add that I don't think hydrogen will ever displace batteries in passenger vehicles.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Rivian Versus Competitors 72
Top