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Age/Disposable Income Demographics

Age, Monthly Income minus Tax/Rent/Mortgage


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mount_finkus

mount_finkus

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I’m old and need new glasses, I read your post count as your age ?
Mea culpa(I learned that in Latin class)

Career and income are personal details.
Haha no worries, if I was 22 i would definitely not be considering a 70k car even with my salary. But I’ve got some assets at least and I know what I want.
I think there are definitely people that shouldn’t be made aware of your income and career, like children and less reputable friends. Everyone I associate with at least regularly I have generally been honest with such details
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I want to mention that Rivian specifically states their financing goes up to 84 months and with a down payment that could be less than $1k per month
Financing *any* new car over 7 years - much less an expensive BEV from a startup - is not a great idea.

I urge absolutely nobody to do this.
 

msmith

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Haha no worries, if I was 22 i would definitely not be considering a 70k car even with my salary. But I’ve got some assets at least and I know what I want.
I think there are definitely people that shouldn’t be made aware of your income and career, like children and less reputable friends. Everyone I associate with at least regularly I have generally been honest with such details
First--I appreciate a fellow Lower Decks fan. Billups is my guy.

Second, I think it might be fair to include spousal income as part of this poll and as part of factoring in ability to healthily afford a $70k vehicle. Both your incomes are factors in how much of a mortgage you can afford. It only makes sense to apply this to a vehicle purchase as well.

My wife and I are both 30, with a total post-tax/401k/mortgage monthly income of about 8k. Feels like we're definitely in the younger camp here, but I don't think it's inappropriate to finance an R1T. It fits our lifestyle, we can afford it, and could probably trade in our paid-off Outback and Volt for a substantial down payment.

Point is, everyone's situation is different. If you know what you want, have a plan, and accept the risks...can't blame you for wanting it now. You always might be financially better off in 5-10 years, but that's also 5-10 years that you're not having your Rivian adventures. And you're only going to live so long.
 
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mount_finkus

mount_finkus

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Financing *any* new car over 7 years - much less an expensive BEV from a startup - is not a great idea.

I urge absolutely nobody to do this.
I understand its not the wisest financial decision, but I’d like to know why its just not a good idea at all. I generally keep my cars 5+ years so financing the car for such a time frame seems like a good idea
 
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mount_finkus

mount_finkus

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First--I appreciate a fellow Lower Decks fan. Billups is my guy.

Second, I think it might be fair to include spousal income as part of this poll and as part of factoring in ability to healthily afford a $70k vehicle. Both your incomes are factors in how much of a mortgage you can afford. It only makes sense to apply this to a vehicle purchase as well.

My wife and I are both 30, with a total post-tax/401k/mortgage monthly income of about 8k. Feels like we're definitely in the younger camp here, but I don't think it's inappropriate to finance an R1T. It fits our lifestyle, we can afford it, and could probably trade in our paid-off Outback and Volt for a substantial down payment.

Point is, everyone's situation is different. If you know what you want, have a plan, and accept the risks...can't blame you for wanting it now. You always might be financially better off in 5-10 years, but that's also 5-10 years that you're not having your Rivian adventures. And you're only going to live so long.
Yea, I really wasn’t sure how to factor in spouses/children. I’m aware they can affect the meaning of these numbers greatly.

Since you recognize my profile picture I’ll just say the recently aired episode really made me appreciate and resonate with “Andarithio”. Suffice to say this spousal stuff is really something I’m unfamiliar with
 

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You've completely left off the group with little "income" but substantial assets. Where most retired folks want to be.
My favorite response to "What is your income" is "As much as I need it to be" (Credit to my Dad for this one).

If someone doesn't understand why financing a vehicle for 84 months is a bad choice, it is unlikely that they will ever accumulate substantial assets. Very rarely do you hear anything even vaguely resembling "I wish I would have saved less and spent more".

As a note: The last vehicle purchase we financed was in 1985.
 
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You've completely left off the group with little "income" but substantial assets. Where most retired folks want to be.
My favorite response to "What is your income" is "As much as I need it to be" (Credit to my Dad for this one).

If someone doesn't understand why financing a vehicle for 84 months is a bad choice, it is unlikely that they will ever accumulate substantial assets. Very rarely do you hear anything even vaguely resembling "I wish I would have saved less and spent more".

As a note: The last vehicle purchase we financed was in 1985.
Its true I left out pretty much that entire group. I’ve not met many people in that group even as well off as my family has been relative to much of people I interact with. My parents own a few homes but as investments. I would love to get there one day, i have high aspirations of myself, as I hope we all do.

I will say this about that second part: I don’t think I make great financial choices. But I do what has made me happy and its worked out for me so far. I hope this vehicle purchase/finance works out for me and I could easily see myself regretting it. And I hope I can reach my goals but I’m not naive to think its certain.
 

msmith

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I understand its not the wisest financial decision, but I’d like to know why its just not a good idea at all. I generally keep my cars 5+ years so financing the car for such a time frame seems like a good idea
Your credit score (and the potential hit to it), prevailing interest rates, depreciation rates of a new auto manufacturer, debt-to-income ratio, opportunity cost of lost investment potential, and any future plans you may have for future large purchases (e.g. a house) will factor heavily into how good an idea that is.

My wife and I were fortunate to have bought a home before prices skyrocketed, have good jobs/insurance, and contribute to retirement accounts. Could always be more, but that's something. By the time I expect an R1T to be delivered to my driveway, I'll have at least $1400/mo more to spend than I do today (aggressive student loan payments mostly). I plan on the R1T payments being substantiallyless than that, and we have comfortable discretionary income even with those payments.

Being able to afford the monthly payments is one thing, but it's another to potentially kneecap your financial ability to do anything else. Food for thought.
 
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mount_finkus

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Your credit score (and the potential hit to it), prevailing interest rates, depreciation rates of a new auto manufacturer, debt-to-income ratio, opportunity cost of lost investment potential, and any future plans you may have for future large purchases (e.g. a house) will factor heavily into how good an idea that is.

My wife and I were fortunate to have bought a home before prices skyrocketed, have good jobs/insurance, and contribute to retirement accounts. Could always be more, but that's something. By the time I expect an R1T to be delivered to my driveway, I'll have at least $1400/mo more to spend than I do today (aggressive student loan payments mostly). I plan on the R1T payments being substantiallyless than that, and we have comfortable discretionary income even with those payments.

Being able to afford the monthly payments is one thing, but it's another to potentially kneecap your financial ability to do anything else. Food for thought.
I’m also looking to make something like $2000 or more extra per month by the time my later preorder comes around, and I’m a very recent home purchaser so I don’t plan to have anything change in that regard past the time I would pay off even the longest term financing available. I’d say yes when I put in the preorder it was extremely stupid if I could receive the car then, even if I could technically “afford” it.

Heres a fun fact: Colorado made it law for job postings to post the salary range and I am being underpaid for my skill level. Its old farts like those of you who think salary is a “personal matter” that allowed my income to be so shit until recently
 

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My 2 cents: every experience you can have in a Rivian, you can probably have in another car. It won't be as nice, and it won't be an EV if you need something offroad capable today. But every amazing experience I have had outdoors I have had in a 25k Subaru or something similar. Stretching financially for a car is something that I find hard to swallow. Think of it this way, in the first year you can probably save at least 5k by getting something cheaper with the same ability to get you from point A to point B. that 5k will double at least 4 times before you hit retirement age if you stick it in an index fund (maybe more). That is 80k more in retirement just from the year 1 savings. over 7 years, you are likely talking around 1/2 a million dollars in value. If it is in a Roth IRA it would be tax free earnings.

So you can have an awesome car now or an OK car now and 1/2 a million dollars later. I won't preach which is better. Enjoying life is more important than money, and only you can make that call. I personally spent nearly every dime I had on my honeymoon when I was in my early 20s and don't regret that for a second. Cars were not the thing that gave me great joy, so I have been frugal in that department. So now ~20 years later I no longer have to be frugal if I don't want to be. Only you can make the choice, but at least go in to it truly understanding the opportunity cost.
 

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My 2 cents: every experience you can have in a Rivian, you can probably have in another car. It won't be as nice, and it won't be an EV if you need something offroad capable today. But every amazing experience I have had outdoors I have had in a 25k Subaru or something similar. Stretching financially for a car is something that I find hard to swallow. Think of it this way, in the first year you can probably save at least 5k by getting something cheaper with the same ability to get you from point A to point B. that 5k will double at least 4 times before you hit retirement age if you stick it in an index fund (maybe more). That is 80k more in retirement just from the year 1 savings. over 7 years, you are likely talking around 1/2 a million dollars in value. If it is in a Roth IRA it would be tax free earnings.

So you can have an awesome car now or an OK car now and 1/2 a million dollars later. I won't preach which is better. Enjoying life is more important than money, and only you can make that call. I personally spent nearly every dime I had on my honeymoon when I was in my early 20s and don't regret that for a second. Cars were not the thing that gave me great joy, so I have been frugal in that department. So now ~20 years later I no longer have to be frugal if I don't want to be. Only you can make the choice, but at least go in to it truly understanding the opportunity cost.
Thats an interesting breakdown of the math for this. I could definitely go for something else. For me I want my next car to be something similar to my lifted and overall modified land cruiser. Its tough to find something like that new so I’m curious what the cheapest option for that would come out to.

In the end I think this car may be my “honeymoon”, I don’t see a high likelihood of a real one in the foreseeable future for me. And I do get great joy out of just the idea of owning a nice, off-road capable vehicle that isn’t approaching 40 years in age
 

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Heres a fun fact: Colorado made it law for job postings to post the salary range and I am being underpaid for my skill level. Its old farts like those of you who think salary is a “personal matter” that allowed my income to be so shit until recently
That sucks. Sorry about that. I would suggest everyone who doesn't fully trust their employer to ask what the salary range is for their job title. Ask how it was set and what industry benchmarks your company used to come up with that data. Good companies have answers for that and frequently update salary bands (note if you work for a very small company they might not do this yet). i personally am currently going through and re-calibrating all the salary bands for my org because the software market is insane right now and salaries are going up everywhere.

If your company doesn't do that, go interview for a few jobs to find out what is out there. The market is the best source of salary info.

With all of that said, many people view financial stuff like salary as very personal because our society judges you based on that nonsense. That view point is 100% justified. Not to mention the privacy concerns of discussing it on the open internet.
 
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msmith

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Enjoying life is more important than money, and only you can make that call.
...
Only you can make the choice, but at least go in to it truly understanding the opportunity cost.
Basically this. Most fun things in life cost money that could be invested instead. Money's no good unless you spend it on something though, and saving every spare penny until retirement age might rob you of years of enjoyment. But save nothing, and you'll end up broke or locked out of other opportunities you may not even be considering right now. Maybe the warp core is truly your only mistress. Maybe you'll want to gallivant around the galaxy with Rutherford one day. Who knows? The balance is different for everyone.
 
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mount_finkus

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That sucks. Sorry about that. I would suggest everyone who doesn't fully trust their employer to ask what the salary range is for their job title. Ask how it was set and what industry benchmarks your company used to come up with that data. Good companies have answers for that and frequently update salary bands (note if you work for a very small company they might not do this yet). i personally am currently going through and re-calibrating all the salary bands for my org because the software market is insane right now and salaries are going up everywhere.

If your company doesn't do that, go interview for a few jobs to find out what is out there. The market is the best source of salary info.

With all of that said, many people view financial stuff like salary as very personal because our society judges you based on that nonsense. That view point is 100% justified. Not to mention the privacy concerns of discussing it on the open internet.
It does suck and I think I’m starting to approach that line of privacy concerns that could impact my current and future career. I’ll just say that I am in a smaller company, and I think I was simply unexperienced going into the interview process and not pushing myself for more money, but I’m grateful to be in the situation where I think I can get a proper adjustment while still having the same career stability
 

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We recently organized a way for everyone to share their compensation at my job, it's awesome. You can see exact salaries, bonuses, and equity for every position, location, level of experience, etc. and ensure that you're being compensated fairly.

The only people who benefit from secret comp are employers. And for the most part, the only thing you risk by sharing your compensation with those around you is exposing toxic individuals who would treat you worse if you made less than expected/them, or would take advantage of you if you made more than expected/them.
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