A Modest Proposal to Reduce Charging (DCFC) Frustration

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Today I experienced maximum DCFC stupidity and it's time to solve this problem for the good of society and my general sanity.

I am on a road trip that requires DCFC stops. I routed to an EA station with the standard 2x 150kw and 2x 350kw chargers. On approach, the EA app told me that one 350kw charger was in use and the other was reduced to 50kw. Upon pulling up to the station, I see that the lone fully functional 350kw station is occupied by a Chevy Bolt, with both 150kw stations vacant. This is absolutely unacceptable, as that Bolt is capable of charging at a whopping 55kw. On this same trip, I stopped to charge at another EA station where both 350kw chargers were occupied by ID.4 with a 150kw charger vacant.

My humble proposal is this: DCFC providers should add a surcharge, similar to idle fees, for under using a charger when an adequate charger is available. Add $.5 or something and a warning to the driver that they are being penalized for using the incorrect charger. In an ideal world, this Bolt driver would know and be courteous enough to use the right charger, but frankly I think most who have experienced this type of scenario enough realize that it's just not realistic. People have to be made aware and penalized for this type of behavior.

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[inconceivable]

Today I experienced maximum DCFC stupidity and it's time to solve this problem for the good of society and my general sanity.

I am on a road trip that requires DCFC stops. I routed to an EA station with the standard 2x 150kw and 2x 350kw chargers. On approach, the EA app told me that one 350kw charger was in use and the other was reduced to 50kw. Upon pulling up to the station, I see that the lone fully functional 350kw station is occupied by a Chevy Bolt, with both 150kw stations vacant. This is absolutely unacceptable, as that Bolt is capable of charging at a whopping 55kw. On this same trip, I stopped to charge at another EA station where both 350kw chargers were occupied by ID.4 with a 150kw charger vacant.

My humble proposal is this: DCFC providers should add a surcharge, similar to idle fees, for under using a charger when an adequate charger is available. Add $.5 or something and a warning to the driver that they are being penalized for using the incorrect charger. In an ideal world, this Bolt driver would know and be courteous enough to use the right charger, but frankly I think most who have experienced this type of scenario enough realize that it's just not realistic. People have to be made aware and penalized for this type of behavior.

Can I put forth a counter proposal? Can ALL DCFC companies stop with these sites that have dedicated hardware with different charging speeds? They should be doing site wide load sharing/balancing like Tesla V3 sites have been doing for years.

There was a saying I heard somewhere: move power, not cars.

I recognize this may not be as easy to implement as your proposal, but it seems like the ideal solution.

 

[SlaterGS]

Can I put forth a counter proposal? Can ALL DCFC companies stop with these sites that have dedicated hardware with different charging speeds? They should be doing site wide load sharing/balancing like Tesla V3 sites have been doing for years.

There was a saying I heard somewhere: move power, not cars.

I recognize this may not be as easy to implement as your proposal, but it seems like the ideal solution.

 

[emoore]

Today I experienced maximum DCFC stupidity and it's time to solve this problem for the good of society and my general sanity.

I am on a road trip that requires DCFC stops. I routed to an EA station with the standard 2x 150kw and 2x 350kw chargers. On approach, the EA app told me that one 350kw charger was in use and the other was reduced to 50kw. Upon pulling up to the station, I see that the lone fully functional 350kw station is occupied by a Chevy Bolt, with both 150kw stations vacant. This is absolutely unacceptable, as that Bolt is capable of charging at a whopping 55kw. On this same trip, I stopped to charge at another EA station where both 350kw chargers were occupied by ID.4 with a 150kw charger vacant.

My humble proposal is this: DCFC providers should add a surcharge, similar to idle fees, for under using a charger when an adequate charger is available. Add $.5 or something and a warning to the driver that they are being penalized for using the incorrect charger. In an ideal world, this Bolt driver would know and be courteous enough to use the right charger, but frankly I think most who have experienced this type of scenario enough realize that it's just not realistic. People have to be made aware and penalized for this type of behavior.

While I agree that owners should know their max charging rate and choose a charger based on that, I don't think that's realistic. I think we just need to make all chargers 350 kW and that way it wont matter.

 

[SANZC02]

Today I experienced maximum DCFC stupidity and it's time to solve this problem for the good of society and my general sanity.

I am on a road trip that requires DCFC stops. I routed to an EA station with the standard 2x 150kw and 2x 350kw chargers. On approach, the EA app told me that one 350kw charger was in use and the other was reduced to 50kw. Upon pulling up to the station, I see that the lone fully functional 350kw station is occupied by a Chevy Bolt, with both 150kw stations vacant. This is absolutely unacceptable, as that Bolt is capable of charging at a whopping 55kw. On this same trip, I stopped to charge at another EA station where both 350kw chargers were occupied by ID.4 with a 150kw charger vacant.

My humble proposal is this: DCFC providers should add a surcharge, similar to idle fees, for under using a charger when an adequate charger is available. Add $.5 or something and a warning to the driver that they are being penalized for using the incorrect charger. In an ideal world, this Bolt driver would know and be courteous enough to use the right charger, but frankly I think most who have experienced this type of scenario enough realize that it's just not realistic. People have to be made aware and penalized for this type of behavior.

In my experience not much difference between the 2, I max out about 220 for a very short time on the 350s, I have seen as high as 185 on a 150 and usually in the mid 170s. Over all for me it is less than 5 minute difference on my stops.

You see these being iced by not only ICE vehicles but EVs. I pulled into an EA station in New Mexico, there was a brand new Mercedes plugged in when I got there and you can tell by the screen it is not charging. The way they had parked and the charger they used consumed the 350 they plugged into and blocked the other one. I used the 150, the car was still there and plugged in 35 minutes later when we left, I think the screen was approaching 180 minutes idle.

Would be nice if people could be more considerate of others, just not worth me getting irritated by it. Just hope EA follows through on this guys idle charge and does not wave it. There is a 10 minute grace period when charging completes, then 40 cents a minute so he was up to around $68 and counting when I left.

 

[shrink]

My friend with a Taycan had this same issue with a Bolt owner taking up a 350 kW station and not using a vacant 50 kW station during a road trip last year. The Bolt owner did move when asked, but not without some questioning and mild protesting.

I don't think there's ill intent. I just don't think all EV owners understand different charging speeds and their vehicles fast charging capabilities.

Maybe some additional car-specific information and recommendations can be displayed in the charging station app? I don't know of a good solution to this, but I completely understand your frustration.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Properly operating 150kW EA stations aren't really that much slower for the Rivian. They will usually top out around 175kW.

 

[SANZC02]

Can I put forth a counter proposal? Can ALL DCFC companies stop with these sites that have dedicated hardware with different charging speeds? They should be doing site wide load sharing/balancing like Tesla V3 sites have been doing for years.

Can you add a link to verify this? I do not think the V3 or V4 do any sharing of the power, they each have their own dedicated feeds coming from MW charge boxes.

The older V1 and V2 had A/B stations that shared a feed and could be reduced if they were both in use. That is why in the early days people would try to connect to one of the pairs where the other was open.

 

[stynes]

I don't think there's ill intent. I just don't think all EV owners understand different charging speeds and their vehicles fast charging capabilities.

THIS. Has been exactly my experience. The average consumer, unfortunately, the average EV owner, has no idea what these speeds mean and such. I tend to be friendly and make conversation. I've been getting lower speeds than what I should, I asked a driver plugged in next to me what kind of speed they were getting. They said it's normally about a half hour. I was like... um, no. Like current charging speed. So they looked and pointed at the EA post that said 350kw. I just said thanks.

Most people, in my experience, aren't trying to be rude. They're just ill-informed.

 

[zefram47]

What other folks said...stations just need to have uniform equipment. The CCS spec has no way of determining what car you're driving unless Plug and Charge of some form is in use by both parties. And expecting the average driving to know their car tops out at 55 kW is a tall ask. You still have people driving a Camry filling up with Premium because they think it's better...where it's actually worse for a car tuned to run on Regular. In the same way folks will see 50/150/350 kW and automatically assume the 350 kW will be faster regardless of their car. Maybe what we ought to advocate for is stickers inside the charge flap that say what the max charge rate actually is.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

My friend with a Taycan had this same issue with a Bolt owner taking up a 350 kW station and not using a vacant 50 kW station during a road trip last year. The Bolt owner did move when asked, but not without some questioning and mild protesting.

I don't think there's ill intent. I just don't think all EV owners understand different charging speeds and their vehicles fast charging capabilities.

Maybe some additional car-specific information and recommendations can be displayed in the charging station app? I don't know of a good solution to this, but I completely understand your frustration.

I absolutely agree regarding ill intent. Of course, EA didn't help by simply renaming their chargers as Ultrafast because I'm sure that Bolt owner just wanted to charge "ultra fast" and had no idea that they are manufacturer limited to "Chevyfast"

 

[Kacey3]

I watched this video before buying my R1T... I almost think it should be required viewing for all new EV owners.

 

[Brewbud]

There is also the scenario where the other chargers were in use when the Bolt got there. Unlikely, but possible.

This reminds me of the frustration when a gasoline driver makes use of one of the few pump that has both gas and diesel when there are gas only pumps open. Most don't even realize it.

 

[inconceivable]

Can you add a link to verify this? I do not think the V3 or V4 do any sharing of the power, they each have their own dedicated feeds coming from MW charge boxes.

The older V1 and V2 had A/B stations that shared a feed and could be reduced if they were both in use. That is why in the early days people would try to connect to one of the pairs where the other was open.

Not sure if you’ll accept YouTubers as verification, but it’s discussed in this out of spec video plus others by them and Branden Flasch.

 

[SANZC02]

Not sure if you’ll accept YouTubers as verification, but it’s discussed in this out of spec video plus others by them and Branden Flasch.

Thanks I’ll check them out, never too old to learn something new.

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