4 new Rivian Waypoint Chargers installed in Naperville IL @ Tru by Hilton

[bhopkins]

Did you see the twitter poll regarding whether the Rivian Adventure Network (CCS) should be open to the public?

I am deeply divided on this. In principle, having as many people who have EVs be able to access EV charging seems like the right thing to do, but the moment I roll up to a Rivian waypoint or Adventure charger and a Tesla or Chevy Bolt is blocking me, I'm probably going to feel very different about it.

The only solution I can think of as an alternative to locking down the network is to charge non-Rivian owners a much higher rate - orders of magnitude - like 3 times or more. That way, non-Rivian EV owners can still charge if they are desperate, but they are disincentivized from charging out of convenience - which a lot of people will do just to top off - or to simply hang out there too long because they are going to have to pay an arm and a leg.

There should also be a cutoff at 80 percent for non-Rivian vehicles - and severe penalties for charging past that - like $5.00 a minute loitering fee.

Rivian can use the extra income to recoup the cost of building out the charging network.

While I generally agree with your sentiments, I also have to comment that as an R1T owner who has used a Tesla Destination charger (via adapter), I’m behaving no differently than a Bolt or Polestar user hooking up to a Rivian charger. Ultimately, we need more destination chargers and fast chargers out there for all EVs to use.

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[SASSquatch]

While I generally agree with your sentiments, I also have to comment that as an R1T owner who has used a Tesla Destination charger (via adapter), I’m behaving no differently than a Bolt or Polestar user hooking up to a Rivian charger. Ultimately, we need more destination chargers and fast chargers out there for all EVs to use.

The key point you made is that you are connecting to a destination charger - you can't connect to a Tesla fast charger. Tesla only considered opening those up (and they still haven't) when their network was practically ubiquitous.

Right now, Rivian has orders of magnitude more cars on the road than chargers of any kind. Opening the network up before it is the size of Teslas means you are depriving Rivian owners of the opportunity to potentially find a charger, especially a fast charger, that is critical to the ownership experience of that vehicle.

I think in time - when the network is much larger and OTHER companies pony up the money to help build up networks that they expect their customers to rely on but that they haven't given a red cent towards, I will be much more open to Rivian opening their network up to the masses.

 

[pricedm]

"... Right now, Rivian has orders of magnitude more cars on the road than chargers of any kind."

Which is exactly why you should be carrying a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter if you want to utilize a Tesla Destination charger. Pretty much all are open to any EV.

How about plug-in gas burners using public L2 chargers? Ban or allow?

Good grief I hope Rivian will deploy capital to further the main objective--more vehicle production. Deploying capital to charging infrastructure at this juncture--when there are numerous L2 and L3 charging stations available, and a massively underutilized factory, seems folly.

 

[Alchemy8279]

These are not fast chargers and are no different than Tesla destination chargers which we can all use. Keep the L2 chargers open for all.

 

[SASSquatch]

"... Right now, Rivian has orders of magnitude more cars on the road than chargers of any kind."

Which is exactly why you should be carrying a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter if you want to utilize a Tesla Destination charger. Pretty much all are open to any EV.

How about plug-in gas burners using public L2 chargers? Ban or allow?

Good grief I hope Rivian will deploy capital to further the main objective--more vehicle production. Deploying capital to charging infrastructure at this juncture--when there are numerous L2 and L3 charging stations available, and a massively underutilized factory, seems folly.

Let's get our facts straight.

Utilizing a destination charger doesn't help you when you are on a road trip and need to charge to reach your next destination. Those are convenient if you are staying overnight (they are usually at hotels or businesses and limited to patrons of those businesses) or are literally about to run out of electrons and need a few miles.

The question here isn't about whether L2 chargers should be exclusive to Rivian - there are enough of those across brands and manufacturers and their utility on the road is fairly limited.

We are talking - and Rivian is talking - about potentially opening up the L3 chargers of which, Rivian has advertised from Day 1 as being exclusive to R1T vehicles - and - are necessary to reach the advertised maximum charging rate that Rivian promises.

What I am arguing is that until Rivian has expanded its Rivian Adventure network to the point that it is fairly ubiquitous like Tesla has with its Supercharger network, it should stay dedicated to Rivian vehicles - or at a minimum - be available to other vehicles for a price premium that helps Rivian offset the cost of building out their network and disincentivizes long charging times or idling so that Rivian owners who need those chargers can rely on them.

With the exception of Rivian, Tesla and Volkswagen (who was forced to do so due to their emissions scandal and subsequent settlement) no other manufacturer has attempted to either build out their own network or provide significant capital to support building out a general purpose network.

They sell their EVs and let other manufacturers and 3rd parties worry about getting their customers viable options to charge. As a Rivian reservation holder and shareholder I'm not interested in subsidizing another auto manufacturers greed because they aren't contributing to the solution and, to the contrary, are actually worsening the problem.

 

[pricedm]

^^^^
Rivian and Tesla opening their exclusive networks is driven by access to Federal government funds. That’s it.

As a Rivian shareholder, all I want to see is increased R1T/S production. Lucid, Volvo/Polestar, Ford, Chevy…none have plans for nationwide branded DC fast charger hardware deployment

 

[SASSquatch]

^^^^
Rivian and Tesla opening their exclusive networks is driven by access to Federal government funds. That’s it.

As a Rivian shareholder, all I want to see is increased R1T/S production. Lucid, Volvo/Polestar, Ford, Chevy…none have plans for nationwide branded DC fast charger hardware deployment

Federal government funds are only available to Tesla, Rivian, and any other auto manufacturer if they make their networks open to the general public which defeats the exclusivity of that network. Tesla received loans from the US government with favorable terms which they paid back. Tesla and Rivian shareholders are bearing the burden of building out their respective networks.

Tesla wouldn't have dreamed of considering opening their network to other brands before their network was built out to the point where Tesla owners wouldn't have to worry about not having a place to charge.

Rivian has a handful of L3 chargers currently across the US. Opening up the network (right hand side) before it is closer to what Tesla built (left hand side) would be nonsensical.

The exclusivity and availability of a charging network for Rivian vehicles is an important decision point for anyone purchasing EVs. As many have commented here and other places, it has been a critical factor for Tesla owners or buyers considering purchasing a Tesla.

To quote and misquote James Carville: "It's the network, stupid."

 

[JACE]

We're organizing a Chicagoland meetup next Saturday at these WP Chargers. Please join if you can and thanks @bobaurora (i borrowed your pic for the meetup post)

https://s00n.rivianstories.com/even...-donut-meetup?instance_index=20221217T153000Z

 

[Electrified]

I'd like to see Rivian require a subscription to their membership program to be able to use the chargers. It would be nice to be able to use them with my non-Rivian vehicle if I just happened to be driving through with it. Of course that also requires Rivian be invested in actually turning up the chargers in my area.

Fellow Polestar 2 owner here

 

[fotoflux]

If Rivian could just install some DC chargers half way between Chicago and Iowa on I-88, a lot of Chicago folks would feel a lot more comfortable traveling west. There are 0 DC chargers on the entire span of 88 outside of the Chicago suburbs.

 

[whiskeyfarmer]

If Rivian could just install some DC chargers half way between Chicago and Iowa on I-88, a lot of Chicago folks would feel a lot more comfortable traveling west. There are 0 DC chargers on the entire span of 88 outside of the Chicago suburbs.

100% agree! Plz tell Rivian that. I’ve offered them our business location at our distillery in DeKalb just off of I-88. They wanted me to pay an arm and a leg for the privilege of hosting. No thanks. But we have the perfect spot. And we are constructing a 2MW community solar installation in the spring. And 10 more MW in the fall. Solar powered - We’d be perfect! Tell them Whiskey Acres is the place to be!

 

[R1Sky Business]

While I definitely understand how someone would feel about a non-Rivian charging at a Rivian branded charger, and high monetary charges to discourage it, also consider it from the non-Rivian owner or Rivians point of view. Rivian wants to appeal to new and more customers. For now, they don't want to be observed as the company that gives excessive monetary charges to potential new customers. A potential customer desperate for a charge, if they feel they are charges extremely high rates for a charge, may view Rivian as money hungry and wonder just what else they fleece their customers for. Stories would be all over social media, or click bait articles. Look how many articles are out there about auto manufacturers and subscription services, are any of them positive? And (at least for now), imagine having a Rivian pre-order for over a year (R1S or max pack especially), and getting fleeced on a Rivian charger because you still drive a Tesla or a Bolt because Rivian hasn't delivered to you yet. I won't argue against charging people extra for charging above 80%, especially since some people plug in and forget about it at destination/hotel chargers.

But trust me, now that I have my R1T, I will probably be disappointed if I want/need a charge and something else is using the Rivian charger I need/want.

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[VSG]

Right now, Rivian has orders of magnitude more cars on the road than chargers of any kind.

Yet the density of Rivians in any area is still quite low. I think this is why the RAN chargers should be open to everyone right now. In order to build out the RAN network, Rivian is going to have to do a lot of "real world" testing. They need to be charging as many cars, and as many models, as they can get. It also doesn't make sense right now to install a RAN charger in the middle of nowhere far away from any Rivian offices and service centers, because if (when) it breaks, it will be a pain to repair and because being in the middle of nowhere they are unlikely to see many Rivians. If they did this, they would get no "real world" experience at all, and how would that help?

What I am arguing is that until Rivian has expanded its Rivian Adventure network to the point that it is fairly ubiquitous like Tesla has with its Supercharger network, it should stay dedicated to Rivian vehicles

You may have chosen a different path in their shoes, but what I see Rivian doing is bootstrapping their network first by developing their own charger design then building manufacturing capacity. Second, by deploying the initial few chargers in a restricted region (CA) where they can monitor and service them, and where there is a large enough base of EV owners so that these chargers will be frequently used. Third, by incorporating the lessons of this "real world" trial to build out a larger network, again focusing on areas which will get a lot of use, while not restricting access so that they can work out all the interoperability problems. Chargers are also important to their fleet strategy, which requires turnkey charging solutions and is slated to become one of Rivian's biggest revenue streams, so Rivian is also working on the big picture, not solely focused on R1T/S owners.

I expect that after this round of RAN chargers are rolled out, the next step will be to kick manufacturing and installation into full gear to reach the goal of 3,500 chargers at 600 RAN sites. They will probably start asking for payment from non-Rivians at some point, but in order for them to qualify for Federal money they have to work for everyone so they have to take steps NOW to ensure they are. Better to do that and easier to accomplish that while the chargers are free. At some point they will probably start charging Rivian owners as well, perhaps as part of the membership program, perhaps only after a free period for new owners.

What you're seeing now is not the end game. These are merely the steps they're taking in a multi-year journey towards the goal. A lot of people seem to think that the fact Rivian didn't deploy all these chargers on day one is a failing, or that the limited rollout (currently) is because they are "ignoring" certain populations of "favoring" certain other populations, but I don't see how you could roll out a nationwide network of chargers/service centers/etc. without starting somewhere first. If you feel slighted because that's not where you live, then you're not seeing the big picture.

 

[marubicon]

If Rivian could just install some DC chargers half way between Chicago and Iowa on I-88, a lot of Chicago folks would feel a lot more comfortable traveling west. There are 0 DC chargers on the entire span of 88 outside of the Chicago suburbs.

Completely agree on this - I have family in the Quad Cities and there is zero charging infrastructure between the edge of Aurora and Davenport, IA. Rochelle, Dixon, etc would be great stops along the way to charge up!

 

[bobaurora]

If Rivian could just install some DC chargers half way between Chicago and Iowa on I-88, a lot of Chicago folks would feel a lot more comfortable traveling west. There are 0 DC chargers on the entire span of 88 outside of the Chicago suburbs.

Supposed to be one coming to Rochelle as part of the Illinois ev infrastructure plan. But would be great to have one in Dekalb also. There is a supercharger in Rochelle already.

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