350KW Charging that has Worked Everytime vs. Shell Recharge 50kw (60% success rate with Shell)

[MNLightning]

Here in Minnesota our voltage is 208v not 240v

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[ajdelange]

Here in Minnesota our voltage is 208v not 240v

Possibly but probably not. If your building's wiring is 3 phase you will see 208 from pole to pole but 120V pole to neutral.

 

[CommodoreAmiga]

Here in Minnesota our voltage is 208v not 240v

Are you on 3-phase instead of split phase?

 

[PoorPilot]

So if i drive with a lead foot and get 270 miles / 100%, and you drive with a feather foot and get 315 miles / 100%, how do I compare your charge rate in miles per hour?

Too many variables to give a straight answer. Are we talking about L2 or L3? What’s the OAT? Are we both starting at 0% and plugged into the same charger? My original point was that calling the “miles per hour“ meaningless is a little short-sighted. When I talk to new EV or non-EV drivers, if I start to tell them how many Kwh I get at home, how much it costs per kwh or how many kWh I get while on a road trip, they look at me with a blank stare. I mentally convert for them, because that’s what most people understand. It’s not necessarily right or wrong, just the nature of the beast.

 

[jtshaw]

Thursday after finding my regular 50kw Shell Recharge station wasn't working. Shell reset it 3 times and still no luck so I headed to the fastest chargers within 30 miles at a Walmart. I was pretty happy with the charge rate. It took just over an hour to go from 10% to 93%. For a while the charge rate was adding over 500 mph.

Fast forward to today and I tried 3- 50Kw chargers 2 at Goodwills and what was my regular charger in Hopkins that either failed or crapped out. My 1st attempt charged me at 125 mph for just 30 minutes and stopped. The Shell rep said the chip in the handle was on a work order and should be repaired in about 2 weeks.

I'm going to have to move up my scheduled installation of my 11.5Kw home charger as without 50Kw charging available I can't really use the truck. I've been using the 120v 2mph home charger overnight when needed. Currently I'm down to 60 miles of range so the truck will have to sit tomorrow or until I get the 11.5Kw charger fired up.

Does anyone have experience with a 11.5kw charger? I'm just wondering what I can expect in terms of a charge rate. Hoping for 30mph

The battery is roughly 135kW. So at 11.5kW you’ll see times of roughly 12 hours (+/- a bit because of loss to heat and vampire drain) to go from 0-100%. If you charged every night and drove 100 miles a day, you would likely only need 4-5 hours to be back to full every night (assuming 100 miles is roughly 1/3 of the pack or 45kW of energy).

 

[MNLightning]

Too many variables to give a straight answer. Are we talking about L2 or L3? What’s the OAT? Are we both starting at 0% and plugged into the same charger? My original point was that calling the “miles per hour“ meaningless is a little short-sighted. When I talk to new EV or non-EV drivers, if I start to tell them how many Kwh I get at home, how much it costs per kwh or how many kWh I get while on a road trip, they look at me with a blank stare. I mentally convert for them, because that’s what most people understand. It’s not necessarily right or wrong, just the nature of the beast.

I drive xyz miles per day and don't see a reason for (me) to add the conversion of Kwh's into it. I know what a 50kw or 350kw charger will provide in MPH's. And Kwh and Mph are both just measures of the charge speed. So for me I'm just looking for the best estimate of time required to cover a distance in miles.

I talked with Rivian service today about my charging issues with ZEF chargers and the Shell Recharge app. They had me perform a hard reset and that worked for me at my regular charging station today after 7 failed attempts to charge at various ZEF 50kw chargers. I was going to head to a 350kw "Charge America" charger 35 miles away that had not given my any issues previously, but if that session failed for me I would be close to not making it back to home base. Granted this is only 1 successful charge after the reset but I'm hopeful it will resolve whatever issue the R1T was having charging.

I was also able to pickup my EV meter socket housing today from our local power company and am looking forward to $0.065 cents per KWh vs. the retail charging rates. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather drive a ICE pickup if I had to continue to use retail charging stations exclusively. The cost savings of 5-7 cents a mile over ICE isn't worth the inconvenience of having to spend a hour + charging and finding a charging station during a work day.

 

[PoorPilot]

Glad it‘s working for you- right now. $.065/kWh is pretty good! We don’t have off-peak rates where I live, but I still only pay about $.09/kWh…and I thought that was good!

 

[Craigins]

The issue is mi / kwh is a dynamic number. So if you charge one week and tell someone you get 20 mph charge, and then there's crappy weather. The next week when you charge you may get 17 mph charge.

So then if the same person is there, you confuse them. Is it 20 or 17? That's like saying when i fill my truck up i get 500 miles in 10 min of fill up. But if i spend 2 weeks city driving, I then drop to 400 miles in 10 minutes. Same amount of gallons, different miles per gallon.

If you do use mph charge, use the epa rating for mileage, not what the app or car says.

 

[zipzag]

Here in Minnesota our voltage is 208v not 240v

Three phase is 208 which is common in commercial. Minnesota houses are 240V split phase.

Public level 2 chargers may be three phase or split phase.

 

[ajdelange]

The issue is mi / kwh is a dynamic number. So if you charge one week and tell someone you get 20 mph charge, and then there's crappy weather. The next week when you charge you may get 17 mph charge.

The issue is that kWh is the dependent variable and miles the independent variable. As such the kWh used depends on driving conditions which can't be predicted at the time the kWh are metered in. This is, among other reasons, why the cognoscenti deprecate the expression of consumption in mi/kWh and the representation of SoC in miles.

 

[ajdelange]

Three phase is 208 which is common in commercial. Minnesota houses are 240V split phase.

Public level 2 chargers may be three phase or split phase.

Residential service is normally 240V bi-phase (in North America). Panels are wired L1/N/L2 The exception will be residential buildings on farms with 3 phase service or apartments in large apartment buildings which are served with 3 phase Y in which case the panels are wired L1/N/L2 (or L2/N/L3 or L3/N/L1). The voltage difference between any L and any other L is 208V but the difference between any L and N is 120V.

Destination chargers can be served from either bi-phase or 3 phase circuits but the EVSE itself is a single phase device (in the US and Canada).

 

[dduffey]

Please try to use kwh (or at least %) when attempting to compare numbers.

Miles is a meaningless statistics when trying to compare with other people or when telling other people how fast you are charging.

kw and kwh are not second nature to most people. Even this post "use kwh ... when telling other people how fast you are charging.".

But kwh is how much, not how fast. kwh per hr would be a charge speed, and that's just kw.

Even though we are a two EV family, kw has no meaning to my wife and it's just "nerd talk." On the other hand If I tell her that her car charges "about 30mph" (epa) at home, that has all the meaning she needs and wants.

I found telling anyone outside of a tech or EE degree that I charge peak at 250kw, eyes glaze over. Tell them "I hit over 1000mph peak charge on the way" eyes open. Or more simply "I added 150 miles in about 10 minutes" is maybe less precise but gives more meaning and context.

Telling people that you are able to charge x% in Y time I see little value in. It's like answering the question "how long does it take to fill your battery?".

You mean like from 0 to 100%? I don't know, I've never done it.

It's the wrong question because it has no meaning for short range EVs (what's 100% when you get only 60 miles out of it) and for more long range EVs as well because why does it matter charging to 100% when I can charge 1000mph and only need to go 200 miles (i.e. the bigger the battery the faster it will usually charge in kw and mph [or total khw or total miles] which is good, but it then also takes longer to get to 100% so "that's bad" when asking %)

A better question would be "how long do you have to stop to drive another 200 miles or 3 hours" ... Or "how much range (miles) do you get overnight/8 hours at home".

 

[crashmtb]

Mail your R1T up to me and I will charge it on 350kw petro canada chargers

 

[Dirty_B]

My guess is a either ”marketing rounding” or an absolute best-case theoretical scenario, including a “hot“ grid or someone getting better-than-EPA estimate.

Nominal grid w/EPA estimate:
240V @ 48A = 11,520Wh / 480 W/mi = 24 mi/hr

Hot grid w/EPA estimate:
250V @ 48A = 12,000Wh / 480 W/mi = 25 mi/hr

Nominal grid w/Hyper-miler efficiency:
240V @ 48A = 11,520Wh / 460 W/mi = 25 mi/hr

IMO, I think it would be most fair to just advertise the EPA number on a “nominal” outlet. 24 mi/hr is not appreciably different than 25…. But I guess that round number may be more desirable, to some?

In my experience, who am I kidding I have no experience, I dont think many locals/providers will be servicing a house with 250V. Your more likely to 240 or less than 250v. And so, plan accordingly. If 48A gets 22 (rounded) mph of charge in the wild, that's really horrible and I''m hoping Rivian can do some software voodoo to improve efficiency.
Dirty_B

 

[Dirty_B]

The battery is roughly 135kW. So at 11.5kW you’ll see times of roughly 12 hours (+/- a bit because of loss to heat and vampire drain) to go from 0-100%. If you charged every night and drove 100 miles a day, you would likely only need 4-5 hours to be back to full every night (assuming 100 miles is roughly 1/3 of the pack or 45kW of energy).

It's even simpler as demonstrated by the first batch of reports: Efficiency, in Conserve, is around 2 mi/kWh average. Drive 100mi, you need to replace 50kW. I'm not even going to get into vampire drain, cooling/conditioning of battery while charging etc. As a rounded rule of thumb I'm planning on - miles driven/2 = kWh used; miles driven/20 = time to recharge to pre-trip level (assuming nothing drastic like going to 0 (speaking of which there is a 10% reserve right, so only 125kWh is useable? - really don't know). All just a general rule of thumb for charging off an L2 at 48Amps...I don't even want to go into an L1 since that may make me realize how horrible the efficiency is and not buy one - jk.
Dirty_B

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