Standard Range LFP vs Long Range NCM battery packs - what am I missing?

[aughrimfurey]

For everyday driving with the infrequent longer road trips (let's say over 400 miles), it seems that the Standard battery pack with an estimated "260+ miles" and able to be charged to 100% regularly will be better suited than the Large battery pack with the 320+ miles that should only be charged to 80% (and charged to 100% sparingly for longer drives).

All things being equal, charged to 80%, the Large battery pack will essentially give you 256 miles (320 x 80%), while the Standard battery pack can give you 260 miles with every charge since it can be charged to 100% with minimal degradation (due to the reports on longer lifespan of LFP batteries). Additionally, the LFP battery can be discharged to a lower state than the NCM battery in the Large pack, giving you the ability to use more of that 260 mile range on the LFP battery than the truncated 256 mile range on the NCM Large Pack battery (you can go to less than 10% charge with less concern on the LFP battery).

In other words, for everyday driving, the Standard Pack LFP battery seems to have a longer lifespan while providing slightly longer range. It would only be the longer road trips where you may have to stop more often to charge the LFP (or not if you want to stick to the 80% charge cap) . For those who don't do this often (or when the charging points become more abundant), the LFP battery seems to be the better battery for less $.

For someone who is looking to go dual motor over quad (since you can't get quad motor with the standard battery), and does infrequent road trips, what advantage is there for the Large pack NCM vs the Standard Pack LFP? I see the Standard Pack LFP winning. What am I missing?

Sponsored

 

[Tatnai]

Cold weather. While battery preconditioning helps, in cases where you are not preconditioned LFPs do worse for range and charging, and takes longer to warm/precondition the battery. So unscheduled stops for charging may suck really bad during winter, storing the car outside at night may also suck in winter. I am not expert though, just spitting out what I have read online; any engineers care to comment?

I live in MN and plan lots of winter road trips. Sticking to the quad motor R1S.

 

[Bullitt]

Good points… I have the Model 3 with LFP battery and we charge to 100% regularly which gives us 250 miles range. Charging my R1T to 70% daily setting gives me 215 miles.

If you’re in a warmer climate like I am, the LFP battery really is a great option!

 

[aughrimfurey]

Good point on the impact the cold has on LFP batteries. Hoping that the heat pump that Rivian has said is in development should help with range in cold temps.

 

[Virgil T2]

Let’s not forget the extra safety of the LFP batteries, they are way less likely to catch fire.

 

[Craigins]

How do LFPs handle regen braking at full capacity?

 

[derekmw]

I do like a lot of the positive aspects of LFP batteries. Charging to 100% all the time would be nice so you never have to remember/think about the setting between daily drives and trips.

But there are negatives that have to be considered as well though right? Such as weighing more, slower charging, and less performance. I would assume only the dual motor would come with LFP (if they do it like Tesla did) but I wonder how much it would weigh and how much slower the truck would be with LFP and only dual motor. Although I ordered the Standard Range Model 3 (but later switched it to LR for faster delivery), I was bummed at how slow the 0-60 is on the LFP SR models.

 

[Bullitt]

I do like a lot of the positive aspects of LFP batteries. Charging to 100% all the time would be nice so you never have to remember/think about the setting between daily drives and trips.

But there are negatives that have to be considered as well though right? Such as weighing more, slower charging, and less performance. I would assume only the dual motor would come with LFP (if they do it like Tesla did) but I wonder how much it would weigh and how much slower the truck would be with LFP and only dual motor. Although I ordered the Standard Range Model 3 (but later switched it to LR for faster delivery), I was bummed at how slow the 0-60 is on the LFP SR models.

0-60 in our LFP M3 feels incredible at its advertised 5.6 for our model (LFP battery added minimal weight difference for the overall weight of the car. Side note… our LFP was the first batch they switched over to last year and they increased the battery size for the SR+ after that which landed them at 5.8 in the end… negligible, but the 328i I came from had a slightly better 0-60 and it felt waaaayyyyy slower than the M3. Im sure because the launch of power from an EV is a major part of that. NOW… that said, my R1T does 0-60 much quicker and feels like raw power once you mash the peddle to the floor, but my M3 is way snappier on the throttle response at the top of the curve.

YMMV… just finding the differences in feeling interesting…

 

[derekmw]

0-60 in our LFP M3 feels incredible at its advertised 5.6 for our model (LFP battery added minimal weight difference for the overall weight of the car. Side note… our LFP was the first batch they switched over to last year and they increased the battery size for the SR+ after that which landed them at 5.8 in the end… negligible, but the 328i I came from had a slightly better 0-60 and it felt waaaayyyyy slower than the M3. Im sure because the launch of power from an EV is a major part of that. NOW… that said, my R1T does 0-60 much quicker and feels like raw power once you mash the peddle to the floor, but my M3 is way snappier on the throttle response at the top of the curve.

YMMV… just finding the differences in feeling interesting…

yeah, you definitely have a good point there. I think most people coming from a gas car will still find the LFP Model 3 to be quite fast. I think I'm ruined after having the Model 3 Performance. Even the LR we had for a few months felt quite slow and I couldn't even imagine how the LFP one would feel for ME.

 

[Bullitt]

yeah, you definitely have a good point there. I think most people coming from a gas car will still find the LFP Model 3 to be quite fast. I think I'm ruined after having the Model 3 Performance. Even the LR we had for a few months felt quite slow and I couldn't even imagine how the LFP one would feel for ME.

Im sure it would feel like a pokey little puppy in comparison! Haha

 

[hiimisaac]

I do like a lot of the positive aspects of LFP batteries. Charging to 100% all the time would be nice so you never have to remember/think about the setting between daily drives and trips.

But there are negatives that have to be considered as well though right? Such as weighing more, slower charging, and less performance. I would assume only the dual motor would come with LFP (if they do it like Tesla did) but I wonder how much it would weigh and how much slower the truck would be with LFP and only dual motor. Although I ordered the Standard Range Model 3 (but later switched it to LR for faster delivery), I was bummed at how slow the 0-60 is on the LFP SR models.

So, couple things -- the slower charging is only slower peak charging. The LFP chemistry actually should hold a better curve and be better >= 80% or above.

And as for performance, it's less peak performance but the nominal voltage of LFP is more steady through the lower states of charge, so while NMC will have less power the lower in the battery pack you get, the LFP will have the inverse and should have full power lower into the battery pack.

And, if they did it like Tesla, the LFP will have regen at 100% State of Charge, as well. Just some stuff to keep in mind.

Sponsored